Ready or Not (S.W.A.T)

[Trichome]

So check out what I was seeing tonight.... any ideas?

[PanzerMeyer]

That is very weird BUT I did notice there's another update out today in Steam so maybe that will fix your issue.

[Trichome]

didnt notice so Ill try it again tonight. Thanks!!

[Trichome]

notice this on reddit this morning...

Looks like Devs are done with AI behaviour. I do thinks its been improved. Thoughts?

[PanzerMeyer]

Yes, it's been improved a lot. I think most of our deaths last week were due to just being impatient and careless.

[Trichome]

Hey guys... Jay had fun yesterday and I think will be a returning player. Thanks for being patient and helping work through some of the tech issues.

He did a full reinstall of windows yesterday so hopefully itll fix the issues going forward. (not 100% convinced big picture was the issue but we shall see)

Thanks again!!

[PanzerMeyer]

It was great having Jay! Having a 5 man team is really the way to go with this game.

[PanzerMeyer]

That was a fun session last night even though only three of us showed up!

[Trichome]

That was a fun session last night even though only three of us showed up!

And we did pretty good....

[PanzerMeyer]

It was nice having a 5 man team for a little while last night. We need to do that more often!

[Trichome]

It was nice having a 5 man team for a little while last night. We need to do that more often!

100%.... I would only say that maybe someone take lead and give "orders" or suggestions. Whoever is comfortable or we cant rotate..... We were standing around a bit and we got bit a few times because of that.

Just a thought but either way I'm liking RorN more now than before and the extra guns are more than welcome.

[Cr33p3r]

Jedi arrests a waitress:

[PanzerMeyer]

Yeah that was damn funny!

[Trichome]

lol... classic RorN

[Bones]

It was nice having a 5 man team for a little while last night. We need to do that more often!

100%.... I would only say that maybe someone take lead and give "orders" or suggestions. Whoever is comfortable or we cant rotate..... We were standing around a bit and we got bit a few times because of that.

Just a thought but either way I'm liking RorN more now than before and the extra guns are more than welcome.

To what Trichome said, I would like to comment on it. These comments are below, based on some experiences I had that I will explain afterwards:

90% of these missions are meant to be stealthy. You have two approaches: static and dynamic. When you are static is when you are stealthy--you are picking locks, using the optiwand, etc. Once you are compromised or a shot is fired, well, everyone knows you are there or are going to panic react so then you go dynamic. Door charges, flashbangs, etc. But since most of the time it is static because you are trying to rescue hostages without getting them threatened, or you are trying to take out the suspects without alerting the remaining ones, stealth tactics need to be used. The basics of this for high risk entry are:

1. Have everyone have a primary role. A 4 person squad should have one lead who remains in the rear to get the best overview of the situation while delegating tasks for the rest. Lead also covers the rest of the team so they aren't jumped from behind when doing their task. The rest of the 4 man should have a point man, a breacher, and a tail end charlie. The point man is the first in the room and usually the first to look inside since he sees and knows what's in there compared to the rest of the team first hand. The breacher picks the locks or rams the door, or blows the door with charges or shotgun if need be. Tail end charlie watches their back heading into the room (and the squad's back too, but lead also does that).

2. The squad stacks up at the doorway in a a single file. Normally everyone will have their non shooting hand on the shoulder of the teammate in front of them. Feeling their hand on your shoulder assure you that you have your six covered for support. The point man uses the wand to mirror/view under the door and assess the situation, then reports to the rest of the team what he sees.

If the room is clear of suspects, they make entry, picking the lock if needed.

If the room has suspects, depending on the situation they may enter and clear, or go dynamic with bangers or gas etc but then stealth is out for the rest of the mission.

In either case, when entering, you don't just open the door and rush in. In fact, entering is the 3rd thing you do. First open the door. Next, "slice the pie." This is a a term for a technique where you cross the doorway with your weapon trained into the room the entire time but do not enter. This gives you a line of sight that sweeps from one far corner of the room to the other, making sure it is clear before you actually enter. It is hard to explain in text but easier to demonstrate in the sim or in real life and it makes more sense. But after that, THEN you enter the room along with the team. As point man, you go in first and head to the inside corner that you are facing after you slice the pie. You head toward that corner, clearing threats along the way, then turn to the adjacent farther corner and do the same. Once you enter the room, the next person in the squad enters heading to the opposite inside corner, also clearing the way there, and also turning toward his next adjacent far corner. The 3rd person enters after the 2nd and follows the point man's track but stops at the near inside corner, and the 4th person (lead) enters after the 3rd person following the 2nd person's track and stopping at his inside near corner. Everyone then calls their corner/side clear when it is and that is the end of the action.

With this tactic, the entire room is cleared and "consumed" by the team in one swift motion. Afterwards, the room is secured--doors are shut so no one surprise enters, suspects are restrained, evidence gathered etc. No one really calls suspect down until after the action lest they get distracted calling it in and miss the other suspect getting the jump on them.

When employing lethal force, shots should be controlled. No full auto, not even bursts. You are in close quarters and the possibility of stray bullets and ricochets and mayhem is high. Do what we called in the high risk entry class the SWAT gang hand sign: 2 to the body , 1 to the head. Put two rounds in center mass, preferably near the heart, about 1" (2.54 mm) apart from each other in rapid succession then quickly put a third single round into the head if he does not go down, preferably the brain pan. The first 2 shots, if not directly lethal, have the effect that their shockwave will superimpose on itself causing twice the amplitude of constructive interference. Which means in a nutshell that the force of them hitting will be at least twice as much as a single shot. So, if the suspect is wearing body armor, this will 1) knock him down and 2) cause him great pain/knock the wind out of him/incapacitate him thereby neutralizing him without killing him. The third single shot to the head is if he does not go down--this is the insurance shot.

Now going back to entering the room--if it is clear of suspects, you still enter the same way as you might not see suspects hiding, or a suspect might happen to enter afterwards, etc. Or there may be hostages/victims in there. They should be treated as unknowns as they could be suspects pretending to be hostages, or they could be so panicky or even belligerent that they could be a threat as well. That is why even hostages are yelled into compliance, and restrained. You don't need to be distracted by a hostage that suddenly bolts for the door and takes you attention off a suspect that just happened to walk in, or one that suddenly hugs you grateful for saving their life and it throws your aim off of the incoming suspect. Even in the military when SAR picks up a downed pilot, they disarm the pilot before taking him aboard the helo for the same reason. It is safer and you can always ask for forgiveness after the mission is over and everyone is safe and alive.

So those are the basics. There are more of course, and more detail than this quick overview. Feel free to ask me any questions if you have any. I will be the first to admit and disclaim that I am not a SWAT cop or operator or anything like that, but I learned this from a class I participated in that my sister was an instructor for. She, at the time, was a bounty hunter in California and learned it all in a class, and on many missions as a bounty hunter she got real life experience and thus became an instructor for this range where it was being taught. When I was there, I was learning the tactics alongside other bounty hunters, Department of Corrections officers, and the Antioch, CA and Hercules, CA SWAT teams. My brothers even played the adversaries against them which was pretty funny. At the range we had a kill house, a sniper range (I took part in the basic sniper part), and a regular small arms range which was outdoors so it was pretty nice.

v6,
boNes

[Trichome]

I like the idea of having a set role or a role we can rotate.

There is a lot of info above to unpack but we do need to keep in mind its a game and just like anything else Mr. Murphy is going to show up. So I think practicing some of the above (1. and 2.) will certainly be beneficial, some of it may be out of the scope of the game in my opinion.

The 2 in the chest and 1 in the head is perfect in theory but I'm no tier 1 operator or SWAT officer so I need to be realistic. My goal is to drop the suspect before they can shoot me or anyone on my team. Not of full auto though. Single or burst (weapon dependent). AI has improved but they are still a bit "quick". I like to be sure they are dead. You do lose point for excessive force so I/we need to find that balance.
You are correct about ricochets since the last update so knowing your surroundings is important.

Maybe next time we go in we do a walk through of the practice shoot house and maybe Bones can go over some of the tactics we can try to employ. I have a few scenarios that maybe I would be unsure of where to stand or where to watch.

We do need to USE OUR TOOLS.... to often we dont use our flash/stingers or other non lethal devices.

1 room at a time. Stick together. Pre plan our loadouts. Dont block the doorways - move into the room
We also need to make sure no one is standing RIGHT in front of the door we are about to open. (Sorry Panzer - last one was my fault)

I watch some or Karmakuts' video on YouTube and 8/10 times those guys are on point... It will take time but I think it'll be rewarding if we can get through some maps with better grades.

This video is alright....

[Bones]

I like the idea of having a set role or a role we can rotate.

There is a lot of info above to unpack but we do need to keep in mind its a game and just like anything else Mr. Murphy is going to show up. So I think practicing some of the above (1. and 2.) will certainly be beneficial, some of it may be out of the scope of the game in my opinion.

Yes it is just a game, but we also, in this group, strive for realism. Ready or Not, like Arma 3, is not like Call of Duty. It's a tactical simulator rather than an FPS. Now granted, there are some thing that would not be possible to do in the sim as you would in real life, and sure, that's waiveable, but some of the obvious things such as rushing into a room and shooting without discretion or going off lone wolf etc is not realistic in the sense that we try to adhere to. And yes, Murphy shows up, but this happens in real life too. The difference being is that you are more prepared for it when you are of sound tactics rather than running and gunning.

The 2 in the chest and 1 in the head is perfect in theory but I'm no tier 1 operator or SWAT officer so I need to be realistic. My goal is to drop the suspect before they can shoot me or anyone on my team. Not of full auto though. Single or burst (weapon dependent). AI has improved but they are

Perhaps, but again, remember SWAT is a life-saving organization, even for the suspects. Just because the suspects brandish a weapon does not clear anyone to shoot them, dead or otherwise. You have to order them to comply. Now, of course, if they raise their weapon to you and even fire off a shot, then all deals are off. But remember, based on the ROE, there is also less lethal that can be employed (rubber bullets, stingers, etc).

still a bit "quick". I like to be sure they are dead. You do lose point for excessive force so I/we need to find that balance.
You are correct about ricochets since the last update so knowing your surroundings is important.

Well, you should be sure that they are dead if they truly were a threat to warrant that. Aside from SWAT being a life saving organization, you are supposed to arrest and apprehend so that they can stand trial. one should not make sure they are dead as much as make sure that they are NEUTRALIZED. I like that you lose points for excessive force. That in itself shows the game was designed with realistic tactics/doctrine in mind not a shoot 'em up.

[/quote]
Maybe next time we go in we do a walk through of the practice shoot house and maybe Bones can go over some of the tactics we can try to employ. I have a few scenarios that maybe I would be unsure of where to stand or where to watch.
[/quote]

I can help with that, though I will concede that it being a sim and not real life, it may not translate to the T, but will be close. For instance, even with our ultra 4K widescreen monitors and VR, you still don't have realistic peripheral vision which is essential in alot of these sims.

We do need to USE OUR TOOLS.... to often we dont use our flash/stingers or other non lethal devices.

Exactly, refer to the above

1 room at a time. Stick together. Pre plan our loadouts. Dont block the doorways - move into the room
We also need to make sure no one is standing RIGHT in front of the door we are about to open. (Sorry Panzer - last one was my fault)

Yes, everything should be systematic but fluid to facilitate changes on the fly. Pre plan not just the loadouts but the course of action and ROE. That's why there is a briefing room in the game.

Also the use of proper terminology. For instance, the suspect isn't in the 4th window on the right on the 3rd floor of the south side of the building. He is on side 1, level 3, opening 4.

We'll figure it all out. I will again if I haven't already disclaim that I am not an operator or SWAT or anything like that. But I think tactics for a sim like this is essential rather than the usual and obvious RHS RHS RHS tactic. Otherwise it's just controlled chaos.

v6,
boNes