In the Market for a New Rig

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Bones
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

Xpendable wrote:
19 Jun 2023, 06:42
Bones wrote:
09 Jun 2023, 13:47
Intel Core i7 12700K 13th Gen Raptor Lake 16-core 3.4 Ghz (Plus $20 off and free TOtal War WARHAMMER III)
Isn't the 12700k a 12 core, and not a 16 core? I think the 13700 is the 13th gen 16 core, and the 12700k is the 12th gen 12 core.
I typo'd. Thanks for catching that, it got me scared I ordered the wrong one. I double checked and yes I did indeed order:

Intel Core i7-13700K - Core i7 13th Gen Raptor Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) P-core Base Frequency: 3.4 GHz E-core Base Frequency: 2.5 GHz LGA 1700 125W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071513700K

v6,
boNes
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Bones
Posts: 1667
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

While we're at it, I did notice some GPUs may be the exact same model and chip (say a 4060RTX) but the only difference is that one is longer to accommodate 3 fans while the other only has 2 fans. Is that the only difference between the 2 GPUs, and if so, is that just a matter of preference based on how much gaming and thus cooling you will be needing?

One of the reasons why I got the new case was so that it had the length to take the longer GPU cards. But if I'm fine with the same card but only 2 fans and thus a shorter card, then I don't really need the new case.

Thoughts?

v6,
boNes
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Bones
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Joined: 27 Jun 2019, 11:29

Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

OK, Well I found some answers.

First of all, there really is no difference between a GPU with 2 fans or 3 fans in terms of the chip or performance etc. The difference is that 2 fans are quiter than 3 fans and take up less space than 3 fans. They are also cheaper. 3 fans however are better at heat dissipation allowing for better overclocking. They are also thinner so they generally take up less slot space.

Generally it is supposedly better to opt for a higher end dual fan card than a lower end triple fan card. To me, higher end would be something like overclocking which revealed something else interesting to me: most OC edition cards cost less than the non-OC ones. That made no sense and a little further research revealed that it really should be the other way around but sometimes reviews and sales volumes change that logic. Today an OC GPU is cheaper than a non-OC one.

As Henry Jones Sr said, "The solution presents itself." I was going back and forth about the case and it was largely being dictated by the size of the GPU. I decided to go with my current case and keep the new one in reserve in case I couldn't get the new 2 fan OC GPU to fit. Well, I got an email saying that the GPU I ordered is no longer available and it has been canceled and I am getting a refund. Looking at the 2 fan non-OC, it costs more. So I looked at the 2 fan OC and it too was no longer available. The 3 fan OC was available and was only $35 more than the 2 fan I originally ordered. So it just made sense to get the 3 fan OC. Now I just will have to hope that it fits in my current case--there's a chance that it could, it's gonna be tight though. But, if it doesn't, I have that newer case in reserve and it will definitely fit in there.

I'll find out tomorrow when I receive it.

v6,
boNes
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Hammer
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Hammer »

no, higher end does not mean overclocking. i would not mess with overclocking, unless you are prepared to spend infinite amounts of time working on several combinations of settings to get to a stable system. if you really want to overclock, you will also want water cooling and/or peltier coolers.

you CAN buy a "factory" overclocked GPU, which means it has been tested to be stable (with the minimal testing that is done) at the overclock it is set at, and you do not need to mess with it. that is not a bad way to go.

the best fan is the blower (round fan at the back of the GPU, contained in a housing, blows out of the case through the GPU faceplate), but nowadays they are usually limited to the initial release of the GPU and not all manufacturers make them.

3 fans may or may not be better at heat dissipation. often 3 fan gpus have some extra length to them, therefore more metal to dissipate heat. may or may not be true with any particular GPU.
Helmut
Xpendable
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Xpendable »

Bones wrote:
19 Jun 2023, 12:11
OK, Well I found some answers.
I worked with pcpartpicker yesterday, and oddly enough came to some of the same choices you made, such as the same CPU and same motherboard. I have been an Asus fan for a long time. That said, I just read a negative complaint about the Z790 that took Asus 3 months to fix that supposed prevented a 4090GTX from working. I need to read up on that a little more. And Asus just botched a major security vulnerability fix for most of their routers that bricked a bunch of them, and they are literally advising people to stop exposing these routers to the internet apparently due to some mind boggling vulnerabilities. Granted that's a different division, but it is concerning.

I may go with 64GB of ram versus 32 and slightly faster speed. I am also thinking a 4080 for myself, although maybe I wait a little bit on that part.

I see what you mean by cases not having drive bays anymore for bluray/dvd. WTF? That's so odd. I have an unused external one that I bought my wife for her laptop that she never used (hmmm... The irony is not lost on me...) So maybe I don't worry about it.
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PanzerMeyer
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by PanzerMeyer »

Xpendable wrote:
20 Jun 2023, 05:21

I see what you mean by cases not having drive bays anymore for bluray/dvd. WTF? That's so odd.
It's not odd at all. The market demand just isn't there anymore for physical media. Only a tiny fraction of consumers still buy dvd's and blurays.
I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious - Baron Munchausen
Bones
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

Hey @Jedi, you know how you were saying that your GPU card barely fit in your case?

Was it as tight as this?

The back vents are butted up against the chassis that holds hard drive bays. There are no hard drives there so it's open space, plus there are 2 fans blowing air in that direction.

You think that GPU will stay cool? It's got its own 3 fans too
IMG_20230620_203714396_HDR.jpg
v6,
boNes
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Last edited by Bones on 21 Jun 2023, 05:38, edited 1 time in total.
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Hammer
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Hammer »

i think you will probably be OK. those fans are not drawing air from the rear of the card. you might see if you can remove those drive bays that are there (those at the rear of the GPU card) though - often some of them are removable.

Jedi of course to offer his own opinion.
Helmut
Bones
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

Here's a photo of the rest of the card as seen through the drive bay space. It's just fins on the back of the card butting up against the chassis but there are holes in the drive bays there allowing the fins to be mostly exposed. Fins are usually for heat dissipation so i think it's ok. There are 2 fans facing it on the opposite side of the drive bay space and of course 3 fans underneath. The upper surface of the card is also vented and designed for hear dissipation.
IMG_20230621_000833500_HDR.jpg
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Last edited by Bones on 21 Jun 2023, 05:39, edited 1 time in total.
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Bones
Posts: 1667
Joined: 27 Jun 2019, 11:29

Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

Hammer wrote:
20 Jun 2023, 20:45
i think you will probably be OK. those fans are not drawing air from the rear of the card. you might see if you can remove those drive bays that are there (those at the rear of the GPU card) though - often some of them are removable.

Jedi of course to offer his own opinion.

I should probably be clear. The fans i was referring to were on the opposite side of the drive bays, so no you're right they're not drawing air from the card but rather blowing air toward the card, drawn from the outside air in front of the case.

I removed the sliding bays but it didn't make a difference since they didn't really block anything. I might be able to remove that section of the chassis but if the card is ok the way it is i don't want to do any unnecessary extra work (or lose potential drive bays, though i would as a safeguard only add SSDs there since they're smaller
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Hammer
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 14:50

Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Hammer »

I was referringto the fans on the card, not the chassis fans. The metal in the pic looks like it might be blocking the back end of the card some, but your second pic shows it is probably OK the way it is.
Helmut
Xpendable
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Xpendable »

I think it's probably fine. My current case is setup the same way, and I do have drives in that bay. Although I have a meager 1080GTX currently.
Bones
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

Xpendable wrote:
21 Jun 2023, 10:12
I think it's probably fine. My current case is setup the same way, and I do have drives in that bay. Although I have a meager 1080GTX currently.
If this goes well, can I interest you in an ASUS RTX2060 Super?

v6,
boNes
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Cr33p3r
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Cr33p3r »

My son had to use a dremel to file down part of his case to fit his video card. he has some AMD monster in his rig.
Cr33p3r
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Cr33p3r »

my mouth was watering at your video card. Then I looked at the benchmarks and saw mine is only a step below so all the jealousy just released into the atmosphere. Still you have a great system there!
Xpendable
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Xpendable »

Bones wrote:
21 Jun 2023, 10:26
If this goes well, can I interest you in an ASUS RTX2060 Super?
I appreciate it, however... according to my quick research, the GTX1080 is actually slightly faster than an RTX2060 Super in some cases. I'd rather save up for something bigger.
Bones
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

Build is done!

So, as it turns out, with the new MoBo, the architecture is a little different from my old motherboard so it actually has the PCIe slot all the way on top of the expansion card stack. So that raises my RTX4060 higher and away from the PSU. This turned out to be good because now there is alot of airspace underneath the GPU, and it was less tight against the chassis and gave more maneuvering room for the GPU to make it into the slot.

The drawback was that I have a video card that I use for ripping whose PCI slot places the GPU directly under the GPU, blocking one of the fans. It's doable as there are 3 fans but I'd rather let the GPU get all the air it can get. So I can't use that card. I may move it to a backup computer I have in the basement. The GPU has been running at 35 Con average. At peak while playing DCS with all the graphics hyped up to high and Ultra, it got up to 45 C.

I went from 22-30 fps to 150-175 fps. I sure did not know what I was missing. Before I had smooth flying and such, but I didn't have all the graphics pumped up. Now I am noticing drop shadows from say my tailfins being casted onto my HUD as I turn, and lots of civilian ground traffic and individual houses and nothing is jittery. Another cool effect I noticed was for explosions on the ground, I see the chock wave, then the initial ball of flame that transforms into a cloud of black smoke as the fuel and heat burn out before it becomes a rising trail of smoke into the sky. What attention to detail!

you can see the added space I have in the pix below, compared to my old MoBo. I have 9 fans running (including the CPU fan and GPU fans) with space for one more and a radiator if needed but I think I'll be fine. Lots of pretty lights that I could care less about but it still looks fun..gamers these days are all about bling I guess. Even my DDR5s light up and cycle colors.
IMG_20230625_230058268_HDR.jpg
IMG_20230625_230112789.jpg
IMG_20230625_230722090.jpg
The main part of the build took me and Viper (some of you have flown with him before years ago) 5.5 hours (including a 1 hour pizza and beer break). The hardest part was putting in the GPU with cable management. We started at 530 pm. Then next hard part was when we booted her up and we couldn't get the BIOS, but then we did eventually (RFTM!)

After that the problem was that the BIOS wasn't seeing any boot drives at all, and had offered no choice to find any. I had my old SSD still installed and it didn't even see that to be able to boot into Win10. I had bought Win11 on USB so had the idea of booting with that on as a boot drive but it took me 30-60 minutes of troubleshooting to resort to that.

And that is what worked. My BIOS booted to the SUB drive, and started installing Win11, and did it right to the NvMe. I don' t know if it just defaults to that, or if it noticed it didn't have space anywhere else and just went to that, but either way it worked...until it wanted to connect to the Internet to continue installation and was not seeing the Internet. How could it, if the OS wasn't even installed for proper protocols? It took probably another hour for me to finally go to my celphone and Google a way to bypass that, and the solution offered worked. I had to restart the installation but when it came back to that part, it actually gave me an option to bypass the connectivity part. Geez, microsoft, why didn't you have that option from the get go? Anyone without any kind of computer savvy would not have known what to do or if that was a viable option. After that, the OS finished installing and I was now in the weird world of Win11 (my fist time seeing it).

At that point, I had to keep my priorities straight so I immediately started downloading DCS. I had just upgraded my Internet connection to 1.2 Gbps down that day, so this was a good test. I downloaded DCS in less than an hour.

During this time Viper and I took a break and hit the pool to cool down. He went home after and right at midnight I went back to finish the DCS install. I started DCS and I was like...HEY! Where's Sinai?!?!? I looked all over, restarted rebooted etc. Nothing.

Then I realized I downloaded the stable version not the beta. It took about half an hour with installation but I got it done. Since my old hard drive was still in the computer I was able to get many of my keybinds and such out of it and paste it into the new DCS installation. Then I had to tweak everything and reset axes. I also had the big pain of setting up Voice Attack because when I bought it, I bought it under my old email which is no longer. So I had to find the old registration email on my old hard drive and to do that I had to transfer that POP file into my current email client and get it to read it. It wouldn't take after several attempts but I finally got it to go, found the registration key, and emailed Voiceattack of my address change. Next was setting up VAICOM Pro and pasting my profiles in. That worked, but for some reason my profiles weren't doing my special commands. I figured I'd fix that later because at this point, with all the DCS tweaking and the other apps needing to get in and on, the sun was rising and the birds were singing. I still had an issue with my USB 3.0s not working, but this was enough for now and I had 4 USB2s working. So I finally wrapped up for the build at 530am.

Fun.

I tied up some loose ends yesterday, more on that later...

v6,
boNes
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"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
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PanzerMeyer
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by PanzerMeyer »

That's a very nice looking interior!
I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious - Baron Munchausen
Bones
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Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

PanzerMeyer wrote:
26 Jun 2023, 06:46
That's a very nice looking interior!
Thanks! I actually added a story to that in that post...I don't know why the thumbnails are oriented correctly but when you click on them, they turn funny.

v6,
boNes
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
Bones
Posts: 1667
Joined: 27 Jun 2019, 11:29

Re: In the Market for a New Rig

Post by Bones »

So for the USB3.0 not working. I connected my USB 2.0s to the MoBo and when I went to do the 3.0 I saw it had different headers than the 2.0. I thought I had a problem here because I thought that my 3.0 ports had the same plugs as the 2.0, and if so, how am I supposed to connect them to a 3.0gen1 and gen2 header? I found an adaptor for the ports...but then yesterday when I went to run the lines and connect it, I realized that the 3.0 ports had 3.0gen1 plugs after all, i must have just missed them in all the spaghetti wiring. I plugged it in and voila,the USB3.0 ports came alive.

Since I had drive bay space and I had an extra DVD-ROM I wanted to install, I did, but then when I plugged my SSD in to the dock on top,it didn't come online. Looking inside, I saw that I forgot to plug the top dock SATA line in to the MoBo , that's why it wasn't working. So I went to do that and realized I had used up all 4 of my SATA headers (1 for the storage SSD, 1 for the storage HDD, and 1 for each DVD-ROM). So I temporarily swapped 1 DVD-ROM for the top dock SSD and transferred what I need off of it to the NvMe (the only drive I had space left on), then disconnected it and put the DVD-ROM back in.

But it makes me wonder--is there a cable that lets you chain multiple SATA devices into a single header in the MoBo? If so, then I can keep the DVD-ROM and the top dock. Or, is there an adaptor that takes SATA and converts it to be used in a PCIe slot or something?

Of course I might just not need another DVD-ROM but thought Id try. There are like 5 or 6 drive bays in the case, which makes me think that you can chain more than one device together so that's another reason why I ask.

v6,
boNes
"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
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