What is the actual definition of a strike plane.

[Hammer_other]

There was a program on Discovery Channel last night called Ultimate Strike Planes, and it said the F-15C was a strike plane. I'd like to know if they're wrong, so we can go ahead and flame them.

Also, WHY IS THE NIGHTHAWK DESCRIBED AS A FIGHTER?! IT HAS THE DESIGNATION F-117A, BUT IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE AN INTERNAL CANNON!

[Grifter]

Well it sure sounds like they are wrong. The F-15C is a fighter interceptor, designed to engage in air combat only. A strike fighter has the ability to work in both roles, beyond that I'm unsure. As for F117, I have no idea why it is designated a fighter; however, I don't think the lack of a canon does not discount it as a fighter. Take the early F4 series that fought in vietnam. They were fighters and lacked canons. Of course, once top brass realized that they had made a terrible mistake, they put a cannon back in the F4s nose.

[Gator]

I read somewhere that the "F" designation on the F-117 was intended as a bit of mininformation ...

[KODIAK]

Well, I'd say that they were probably referring to the F-15 series of aircraft as opposed to the 'C' model. But if they were, well we all know that if we watch these programs long enough we could rip a lot of the 'commentary' apart given their loose terminology. As for the program "Ultimate Strike Aircraft" I am in possession of one of the DVDs which goes with that program, some not bad footage there.
And I heard the same thing about the F-117A 'F' designation being a misinformation ploy.
FYI - are you aware of the reason why the SR-71 became the 'SR" and not the 'RS'?
Answers on a postcard to this thread, all correct answers will be put in a hat, the winner will pulled out (maybe by Raptor himself! :lol: ) and are entitled to make one free gay comment @ Raptor - you may even use capital letters (if you can find the capslock key! )

[Hammer]

the f-15C radar DOES have an A2G mode and it CAN be loaded with bombs at least...

the f-117 does have an A2A capability, but we know its primary role is A2G. many A2G fighters have had only f in their designation... did the fa designation just start with the f/a-18? does a designate attack only? what are strike fighters designations??? are you really JUST looking for something to talk about and are you just reading too far into it?

[KODIAK]

But no postcard answer ?

[Madrus]

Weel, from what i recall:

Strike fighter = Ground attack plane
P = Pursuit
B = Bomber
F = Fighter
R = Reconaissance
K = Tanker
E = Electronic Warfare/ELINT
C = Cargo/Transport

There probably are some i missed; also, we are talking US here. Since our aircraft industry is the biggest, these designations have become the norm, although the Soviet Union used a different designation, i.e. the manufacturer/designe bureau followed by a model number. with the Soviet's you had to remember that MiG was the primary Fighter bureau, Su was the primary strike bureau, and tu was the bomber/cargo bureau.

Complicating the issue is that while some planes specialize greatly, other planes are designed for multirole. And most planes retain some basic air to air or air to ground capability but are far from even competent in those areas.

The F/A-18 was the first US multirole plane and that is how it got it's F/A or Fighter/Attack designation. The F-15 was designed for Air Superiority, the F-16 for air to air, F-14 for fleet defense. But each aircraft evolved to add additional capabilities throughout it's life due to avionics and weapon development as well as changing politics, mission requirements, procurement issues, etc.

Some examples:

F-111 designed as a multiservice fighter it wound up too heavy for air to air and for naval carrier use, so it was morphed into a medium bomber FB-111 or ELINT EB-111.

F-15 designed as air superiority but eventually had it's fuselage lengthened and wings enlarged to become the USAF's F-15E Strike Eagle, it's primary ground attack plane/strike fighter.

F-4 Phantom designed for air superiority (without a cannon BTW). Had cannon added then morphed into ELINT and recon versions later in life.

I believe the SR in SR-71 stood for Supersonic Reconaissance.

F-117 - makes no sense to me. A night ground attack plane with no fighter capability?

Well, i guess the military doesn't always make sense. Or they did it to fool Congressmen during procurement.

[KODIAK]

I was definitely unaware the F-15E was an enlarged version of the 15 series.. I understood that they probably had adapted fuel capacity, as well as adding the FAST PACK fuel tanks. And also weapon platform upgrades in avionics and weapon carriage enhancement. It never crossed my mind they had extended the fuselage etc., to achieve that. It certainly would explain why they haven't simply "upgraded" all F-15 series to 'E' designations - the cost would be a major factor there I guess.
I am surprised they haven't looked into upgrading the F-16 series in the form of the Israeli F-16 - conformal fuel tanks, avionics spine, and if they are having so much 'trouble' with our own sidewinder series in catching-up with the Soviet weapons, why also have they not acquired some of the Pythons and developed them to our own specifications as a starter for ten? Mind you, there are certain controls on the HOTAS of the F-16 that are still listed as classified. That would indicate to me there is still more to the F-16 than is given to we, Joe Public. But in what role are these hidden capabilities?
As far as the 'F' designation for there F-117A is concerned that could be a very nice little twist to it all. THe ploy tactic being initially aimed at our own politicians? Nice one!
And I am holding out on the 'SR' designation yet (hope you don't mind), I am hoping to hear someone root up a story attached to that, which may or may not be true, folklore - don't you just love it?! :lol:
Thanx Madrus for your input, some good stuff there. This is my kind of thread, aviation trivia - I always hear something interesting I didn't know.

[Madrus]

Sorry, made a mistake. The F/A-18E, not the F-15E, was stretched and the wing was changed.

I think the F-15E has an enlarged or modified rear cockpit to facilitate air to ground missions.

[KODIAK]

Yeah, I knew about the '18' being stretched and stuff, but glad you cleared that up on the '15' with the stretched cockpit. Talking of which the F-15E in FF3 is a dual cockpit, you can access I believe and control the MFDs too. Haven't tried it yet, myself
Have to say I really enjoyed flying the Eagle on mudhen missions in SP3 - you could carry an insane amount of rockeyes or 82's or was it 84's, can't remember, just that you could carry about 15 of the damn things!

[Jedi Master]

You talking about the Johnson swap of RS-71 to SR-71?
The truth is hard to determine in that case, but the fact is there were NEVER any other planes using SR or RS, so the point is kind of moot.

You see, the F and A designations have always needed to be taken with a grain of salt.
The F-111, while originally INTENDED to be multirole (although not really within the same service--AG for USAF, AA for USN), totally failed in its carrier version. TAC got the F-111A/D/F and SAC got the extended range FB-111A (later F-111G). The F-111 had a gun but was a total joke in the AA arena.
The A-4 Skyhawk, designed as the world's smallest, lightest nuclear bomber, became known as a good dogfighter in its own right, armed with its pair of cannon and AIM-9s (or Pythons in Israel).
The F-100 was designed as the successor to the F-86, a successful AA fighter, but really sucked in that role (SFP1 proves that nicely!) and was instead pressed into the AG role in Vietnam, later becoming the Wild Weasel I prototype.
The F-104 was an interceptor that was used for decades as an attack plane by foreign air forces, even though the USAF canned it quickly.
The A-5 was designed as USN long-range nuclear bomber. It failed in the ground attack/nuclear strike role (a little problem with getting hit by its dropping ordnance) and was instead around for decades in the RA-5 recon variant.
The F-117A was numbered to follow the century series. Some of you may not no this, but legend has it the F-112 - F-116 and possibly higher are USAF designations used by ATC and such for captured Eastern Bloc aircraft--MiGs, Sukhois, ets. Their existence is secret as is their usage out there, but by calling the Nighthawk "F-117" you make it sound like another "boring" captured MiG--not the world's first operational stealth airplane!
The F-4 was designed as a USN interceptor, but as we all know was pressed into every other tactical fighter role there was: recon, attack, air superiority (not the same as interceptor!), and of course SEAD. It was so good the USAF swallowed their pride and bought them (as the laughable F-110 until McNamara slapped them down).
The F/A-18 was named as such because the USN wanted to emphasize the multi-role nature of the plane as it was replacing A-7s but could dogfight almost as well as the F-16. Slap 2 AIM-9s and 2 AIM-7s on a bomb truck, then once those bombs are gone you've got a better AA fighter than the F-16 (which in the original A version was incapable of carrying radar guided missiles, other than the ADF variant created for CONUS defense and never deployed). The USAF has since picked up on this with the silly F/A-22 designation.
The F-15E and F-16XL(E/F) were both designed to replace the F-111. Fighters being turned into bombers to replace a fighter turned bomber. The Beagle won, and for once it was probably wiser than making the F-16XL--something tells me we would've lost more F-16E/Fs than we did F-15Es in our Gulf fighting.
The USMC has the AV-8A/B/C. Ok, a vertical attack plane, tack a V in there. Then they add the F-16's radar and call it...the AV-8B +! It SHOULD be the F/AV-8B, shouldn't it?

Sweden does it right. Make letters for all the roles, then tack them on in the order of importance. The AA Viggen with a secondary attack role was the JA-37. The AG Viggen with a secondary AA role was the AJ-37. Simple! The fully multirole Gripen gets JAS-39, even though the S (recon in Swedish) isn't really there yet, but they'll get around to it once the recon Viggens are retired (can't remember what it's called). Oh, here:

The SF and SH 37 models are reconnaissance models with the SH optimized for maritime recon and with a secondary maritime strike role.The SK 37 is a two seat conversion training variant. Around 100 AJ, SH and SF 37s have been converted to a new multirole AJS standard.

Nice to see SOME militaries are logical about this.


I wonder what the A-11 was supposed to be. Was it the plane that competed against the A-12 and lost? Was it assigned to some TS program that never saw the light of day?

[KODIAK]

Fantastic stuff Jedi. And yes, I WAS referring to Johnson getting the designation wrong. Never proven, but a good story - no smoke without fire, and there was plenty of sawdust between his ears, eh?
One thing about the F-16 XL(E/F), you talk about how you think it would have been lesser aircraft than the F-15E. I have to say given the performance of the Typhoon (and yes, perhaps that is a somewhat unfair comparison given it's generation) in an overall view the F-16XL would probably have been in a fairly competitve position with an updated avionics suite incl. radar, conformal fuel tanks to make better use of hardpoints but increase fuel capacity, and had they been able to either provide more power in the engines or reduced their weight drastically, or even managed to fit two engines - but then you're talking lots more money - I guess it could have been a serious contender. But, all in all, the F-15 was easiest and cheapest no doubt to convert.