Foreign Language Skillz!

[Mooseman]

Just to clarify, i meant Latin as in 'Ave, imperator', togas, centurions, all that bollocks

and not Latino, which i gather is vernacular for someone of Spanish heritage


Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to All
(I was going to be a smartarse and translate that into Latin, but couldn't work it out....my parents will be so disappointed to see my education costs wasted )

[Hammer]

actually, it is not vernacular per se. it is the correct terminology for Hispanics as a group seeing as they are a Patriarchal culture - or at least came from that (still are in most places of the world). Their language still heavily reflects this. you can have a group of females with one male, and you would say Latino's and not Latina's... I find it odd, but am going to have to get used to it...

[PanzerMeyer]

My favorite Latin phrase is:


Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.



Now let's see who is the first one to guess what that statement means in English.

[KODIAK]

How Sweet & Beautiful To Die For One's Country
or
Fit & Proper To Die For One's Country
or
a plethora of other interpretations of the same general phrase.
Now I remember why exactly I hated Latin, you could argue for hours as to the exact translation. The sheer beuaty of the language was that you could trip yourself up with the wording and still get your point across. handy for chatting up the chicks! :lol: Unfortunately, most of the chicks who would understand you, are all dead about . . . .oh . . . . . . .1500 years or so!? :shock: :roll:

[Hudson]

Unfortunately, most of the chicks who would understand you, are all dead about . . . .oh . . . . . . .1500 years or so!? :shock: :roll:

Some people dig that kind of thing.

[BlackHawk*K]

Some people dig that kind of thing.

or dig up for that sort of thing...

:shock:

[PanzerMeyer]

How Sweet & Beautiful To Die For One's Country
or
Fit & Proper To Die For One's Country
or

Well done Kodiak! The other issue with Latin is no one really knows how it was actually pronounced by the Romans. In other words, American students who learn Latin will pronounce it differently from UK students and differently from German students, etc. etc. There is no "unified" or agreed upon pronounciation for Latin since obviously we have no audio records from 2,000 years ago. LOL.

[KODIAK]

Correct panzer! It is that interpretation by each particular teacher, vocalised by his pupils that is scrutinised by the judges at each competition. So, if the judge himself has a completely different interpretation than your teacher, you stand little chance of succeeding in the competition. The interpretation differs even as close as each school over here, unfortunately.

[Hammer]

they take your paycheck? an illegal alien? what do you do for a living? most illegal aliens find work because they are willing to do work that most Americans don't want to do...

it seems you are being a bit extreme... yes, it is a problem but you are not starving because of illegal aliens.

and no, they don't just move through san diego... ;)

[BlackHawk*K]

i can relate to what falker was saying in lowering wages. in my line of work, comercial/residential construction and remodel, there are many crews who have a legal licensed owners who hire illegals to do the work. from experiance, ive see these crews lower bidding prices to the point where other general contractors who follow the law and pay 'fair' wages cannot bid low enough to make an income for themselves and their workers. in the end. our wages lower to compete with these crews.... and that takes bread out of my childrens mouth and removes any comfort zone i may live in. i was proud of the fact my wife could stay home with the children instead of letting babysitters and day care raise them, not that we teach them ALL the right things. but at least we will be to blame for when our children turn out right or wrong.. unfortunatly my wife has started working becuse its something she must do. part of this IS to be blamed on the illegal work force who undercut the wages of those who do it legaly. Sure some of these contractors get busted. but the fines are actualy fairly small for doing this. and who gets punished? mainly the illegals who were working... not the boss who employed them.

keep in mind this is NOT about race. the problem would be the same if it was a huge amount of canadians doing the same thing. it just happens that its the mexicans who happen to be the majority of incoming illegals in the US. nothing more, nothing less.

i am all for a guest worker program. i think if there was a huge penelty for employing illegal aliens ( of any kind) and then forced them to register as a guest worker so they can be here legaly. it would level out the wages in matters such as this. i can give example of example in my field of work where this is a problem right now. and ive seen shoddy work being done and the wrong thing being done. mainly due to lack of communicatoin skills on the workers side of things. an employer shouldnt have to learn a second language at age 50 becuse of mexican concrete crews have swamped the market and bairly speak enlish to get by and do the wrong things all the time. my boss is about to melt due to this.. ( not blow up, but just melt and fade away due to frustraition. its cost him alot of time and money and im just talking about the latest job he is working with them on. not to mention others in the past. ) like i said i realy cant speak to anything that isnt within my experience. but from what ive seen and been threw. this has effected my life in a negitive way more then once. and continues to do so.

i currently make $17.00 an hour. im a crew leader. and a job forman. i am in charge of building anything from small remodels to $800,000.00 homes.. ( what im currently on right now ) i pride myself in a good quality job. i build custom homes. things out of the ordinary and do very well at it. i also do all sideings, and all cabnet installs. also do the interior trimwork. i also install all hardware not involved with electrical and plumbing ( although ive done some when needed) all this for $17.00 an hour. 10 years ago this was a $25.00 an hour job description. now days its about right, if your lucky you might find a job doing it for $20.00 an hour. those are few and far between. as you can see, the influx of cheap labor has effected me in a bad way, keeping in mind the inflation that has occured in the last 10 years that hasnt been accounted for.

now to clearify myself. so everyone knows where i stand. i can NEVER blame a man, specialy a man with a family doing what it takes to take care of his own. ive been there. ive done the total crap jobs for min wage so i can feed the kids and pay the rent. i will never blame anyone for comen here to do the same. who i blame is those who exploit these ppl to make a profit. and the large industries who use them for a cheap workforce. those industries in power stand against maken a legal guest worker program becuse they KNOW they will have to pay them more. but we would be safer for one. and better off with a more reliable labor pool. now the down side to this? inflation would go up. beucse you KNOW those industries would not take a cut out of their profits. so would pass the cost to us the consumer. i see a crisis comeing to the country and part of it has hit with outsourceing. call your credit card company and 9/10 chance you will get someone in india. its not just the mexicans who are being held as a cheap labor source now. but also a small part of the white collor labor force as well. who cant find jobs becuse they are now a dime a dozen. its a problem its pretty easy to see that. unfortuneatly im not sure there is an answer for it.

writing this post here, i hope no one reading feels it was writen in anger, on the contrary it is simply an example how illegal labor has effected regular americans. ( who i THINK i am lol )

[Gator]

I agree with BH's last paragraph a lot. Since I've married a woman from another country and because of our circle of friends, I see many aliens - legal and illegal. I think I've seen more instances where businesses are taking advantage of these immigrants because they know most immigrants are scared/intimidated of the beauracracy and won't report the abuses. The businesses know they can pay crap wages and they don't care that they get crap products.

I'm an engineer, but if you paid ME under minimum wage (and it was my only option), I'd produce crap work too - it doesn't matter where you are from.

[PanzerMeyer]

wow, talk about a major thread highjack. :roll:

[KODIAK]

Uh-HU!! No kiddin . . . . . .

[Hammer]

that is o.k. - good discussion.

BH - case in point! can you not rat out the guys using the illegals??? are you not union? most construction workers are, or has that changed? what is your trade?

[PanzerMeyer]

Hmmm..I think i'm going to enter Canada illegally and then get a job where I'm paid under the table and dont have to pay any taxes. You think I'd be a popular guy?

[daofcmacg]

Yeah BH there is an answer to our labor problem and its called war. Kill off lets say 50k to 250k max and you will see a change in the amount of jobs available across the board plus alot of companies will make a helluva profit thus creating more jobs. War is profit for the ones not fighting it. As the old saying goes the old and/or powerful people start wars that the young uneducated poor and eligble people have to die for.


DA

[Hammer]

Hmmm..I think i'm going to enter Canada illegally and then get a job where I'm paid under the table and dont have to pay any taxes. You think I'd be a popular guy?

it is not about being popular. no one said they liked illegal aliens or thought they should be popular... this is something totally different and that was rather inflammatory. :shock:

[PanzerMeyer]

[quote="Steel]
it is not about being popular. no one said they liked illegal aliens or thought they should be popular... this is something totally different and that was rather inflammatory. :shock: [/quote]

It has nothing to do with being inflammatory but has everything to do with penalizing companies which encourage people to break the law by hiring them when they have entered the country illegally and also the hypocrisy of these businesses which get all these tax breaks by state and federal government but at the same time hire illegal aliens so they can pay the lowest wages possible. My intention was not to be inflammatory towards anyone but simply to state a point.

[KODIAK]

I think the main point here is simply that the wrong people are being punished:
1. The illegal - who by the way, is just trying to survive, like the next man.
2. The local national - who sees his own wages slip through the floor towards the breadline, as companies try to compete.
3. The guy who then gets made redundant because companies can't compete.
4. The Company - who can't compete and subsequently goes out of business.
5. The taxpayer - who inevitably pays for all the screwing being done by these companies employing such illegal immigrants.

So, let's screw the ass***es who are taking advantage. Send out a big message to all of 'em:
1. Nail the SOBs who take advantage of the illegals, to the wall - it's a crime afterall.
2. Find all these illegals, understand they are trying to make a living, and make them register - but don't make it impossible - that's what drives people underground. And that way, you'll find the honest ones will make a point of registering. (And let's be honest, with most, their work ethic is very sound and their loyalty can be unbreakable!). Thisa will also make it easier per se, to find the criminal element too.
3. Introduce a minimum wage - for all people. The local national, and the illegal. This would help raise the financial side in all aspects.

Don't get me wrong now, I'm not advocating illegal work across the border, I still believe personally that is wrong. However, this isn't just about illegalities IMHO, it's about dishonourable intent towards others - to the illegals trying to survive, the country you live in, and it's government & you, the taxpayer.

have a nice day.