Ok, Reinstalled Swat 4

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 04 Jan 2006, 01:42

Got this installed last night. I Updated to the latest version (1.1) and Dled the Code 11 Mod found on the 10-David web site. Is there anything else I should DL and install for this? Any Map packs?

Thanks in advance.

Jedi Master · Post by **Jedi Master** » 04 Jan 2006, 04:49

I've never tried any of the mods. Panzer and I have just been playing the stock game.

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 04 Jan 2006, 05:27

You guys want to play this tonight?

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 04 Jan 2006, 06:48

SWAT 4? This one never quite took off with us did it? Was it really any good?

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 04 Jan 2006, 07:08

KODIAK wrote:SWAT 4? This one never quite took off with us did it? Was it really any good?

It's very good if you care for the gameplay. In other words, you play police officers so its not a game where you go around killing people but instead you have to make them surrender and arrest them!

It's not for everyone but the game is VERY good as a SWAT/Police tactical simulator.

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 04 Jan 2006, 15:44

The Code 11 mod is pretty nice, changes some skins and changes the crosshair to a red dot instead of the stock Blue crosshair. Might be worth checking out. I also Downloaded a few things from Magnum50s site (SimHQ guy), haven't tested them yet though.

I played through a couple missions last night, and one thing I really like so far, the mission doesn't play the same each time you play. I played the Diner mission two times, entering around the back of the diner both missions. The first time through, there was a civilian cook in the back, who I got to surrender and I cuffed him. The second time I played the same mission, the cook was there, but there was also a bad guy with him. The bad guy opens fire on me after I tell him to get his hands up. I could not return fire on the bad guy as I did not want to hit the civilian cook nearby. The bad guy ran inside and ran to a door leading upstairs. I decided not to chase him and get caught in an ambush.

Another time I turned the corner and a bad guy took a shot at me and missed. I gave him the command to surrender and he dropped his gun and gave up. I wanted to shoot him SO bad, but cuffed and stuffed him instead. Both missions I lost (1) team member. The AI seem to want to open a door completely before flashbanging the room. Unfortunately this gives any bad guys inside time to get a shot off before the AI can react. Besides the opening doors issue, the AI is really very good. I have told the AI to mirror a doorway (To see whats on the other side) and on occassion they will tell me that I am in their "spot", basically telling me to move. Lol!

If I get home in time, I would love to give this a try. I have been slammed at work this week so far. Amazing that nothing gets done at work while I'm on vacation. What would they do without me? :roll:

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 06 Jan 2006, 09:58

its not a game where you go around killing people but instead you have to make them surrender and arrest them!

C'mon now, you should know better than that, Panz! I even shoot my own team-mates if they run the wrong way. :lol:

Jedi Master · Post by **Jedi Master** » 06 Jan 2006, 11:54

You shoot them when they run the right way!

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 18 Jan 2006, 08:19

I think the problem arises in trying to simulate the HTH stuff, to make it plausible they would really need to go to a kind of 2-D environment in a 3D background, such as in all those fight games for the consoles. Just my take on things.

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 18 Jan 2006, 08:23

I absolutely agree with your post Raptor. Swat 4 is a good game but the rules of engagement are unrealistically restrictive. There is a way to modify those parameters though in the config.ini file but I'm not sure exactly how to do it. In real life, any suspect that points a weapon towards an officer will get taken down immediately with no negative repercussions from the department.

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 18 Jan 2006, 08:38

In real life, any suspect that points a weapon towards an officer will get taken down immediately

Well, I tend to agree that it is so in US, over here in Europe there tends to be many degrees of pointing a weapon. And most people tend to be given a decent amount of leaway with regard to how long it takes for them to drop the weapon, in any given situation. But that is all to do with the general 'gun culture' differences, and the individual too. Over in the US, the guy with a the gun is more likely to actually pull the trigger than over here in UK, Europe. Mind you, the terrorist is not afforded the same level of sympathy as the local crackhead or hostage-taker might be especially if he's staring the down the wrong end of a weapon currently nestled in the hands of an AT team member of the Regt boys!

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 18 Jan 2006, 12:22

Good points Raptor, so true. We know what the deal would be in RL, but there is no way (apparently) for the Swat 4 "grading system" to know and see what you do. You know why you shot and didn't "voice" out for them to get down or get their hands up, that's all that matters.

There are some Realism mods (I have a few mods installed) out for Swat 4 that replace the moving crosshairs with a red dot. I'll have to test it out and see if there is actually a difference/penalty for moving while aiming/shooting for accuracy. The mods change some other aspects of the game as well, I just can't remember off the top of my head.

Another weapon is Swat 4 is this Pepper Ball gun. I assume this is a RL weapon, but I highly doubt it would be a main weapon to use in a Swat situation. Swat is usually called in when the Police officers at the scene can't handle the situation by normal means. Pepper balls would not be my weapon of choice in a RL Swat situation, especially one with armed suspects.

Another problem I have seen in Swat 4 is when you tell the AI to breach and bang a room, they open the door letting it swing all the way open. THEN they switch weapons(Flashbang) and during that transition, the bad guy behind the door has a 1-2 second advantage and 95% of the time will get a free shot at the guy opening the door, disabling or killing him. What they should do is have one guy open the door (Not all the way IMO, but I don't think that's possible in Swat 4) and have a 2nd team member lob a flashbang into the room. NOT have the guy opening the door AND throwing a FB into the room. Again, it's a programming issue.

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 18 Jan 2006, 12:25

Yes, that is very do-able SB. It is programmed in Rainbow Six series games, so really it's down to unimaginative or lazy programming, eh?

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 18 Jan 2006, 12:35

Softball wrote: Another weapon is Swat 4 is this Pepper Ball gun. I assume this is a RL weapon, but I highly doubt it would be a main weapon to use in a Swat situation. Swat is usually called in when the Police officers at the scene can't handle the situation by normal means. Pepper balls would not be my weapon of choice in a RL Swat situation, especially one with armed suspects.

I agree. The pepper ball gun is what you would use if you got called to subdue people during a domestic violence incident or maybe to quell a gang riot. It's NOT what you would bring to a bank which is being held up by guys wearing body armor and equipped with assault rifles and shotguns. LOL.

Jedi Master · Post by **Jedi Master** » 18 Jan 2006, 12:49

A lot of that ROE stuff was apparently design decisions made by the dev, according to Magnum on SimHQ, who spoke with them while the game was still in development.

Apparently they thought the game would be "too easy" if they let you use real-life ROE, as well as take 2-3 times the number of men into the area that SWAT 4 gives you.
Of course, in Real Life you don't look to put yourself into a "challenging" situation, you want to go in with overwhelming force and either scare the perps into capitulating or take them out, not engage in running gunfights in every other room.

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 18 Jan 2006, 13:00

Agreed Jedi. We (British Armed Forces) advocate a 3 to 1 numerical/equipment advantage before considering attacking a target. Otherwise discretion the better part of valour! :lol: Having said that, there are always times where equipment/approach favour the brave - it's all about knowing where and what advantage that equipment or tactical position affords you, and exploiting it fully, in relation to the enemy's weaknesses.

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 18 Jan 2006, 13:01

KODIAK wrote:Agreed Jedi. We (British Armed Forces) advocate a 3 to 1 numerical/equipment advantage before considering attacking a target. .

Tell me, was that procedure in place before the assault on New Orleans in 1812? LOL!!

j/k

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » 18 Jan 2006, 13:48

3 to 1 superiority for assaults has at least been around since WW2 as a standard western doctrine.

Sun Tzu says:

8. It is the rule in war, if our forces are ten
to the enemy's one, to surround him; if five to one,
to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army
into two.

9. If equally matched, we can offer battle;
if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy;
if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him.

10. Hence, though an obstinate fight may be made
by a small force, in the end it must be captured
by the larger force.

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 18 Jan 2006, 15:36

Yes, a wise man he was indeed. But there are many instances of those rules being overturned by simple tactical advantage which of course comes in may guises - technology, individual & team courage/self-belief (survival instinct too!), knowledge and understanding- of the enemy, environment (territory & conditions), SA.

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Ok, Reinstalled Swat 4

Ok, Reinstalled Swat 4