PC Question

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 06 Nov 2006, 16:45

Hi All,

I was just thinking today (I know, sounds dangerous) and had an idea I'd like to run by you all.

Many of us are probably starting to think about upgrading our computers in the next few months (I'm thinking between Feb and April) to upgrade to new systems. With DX10, PCI Express, SATA, Windows Vista, Core 2 Duo, whatever AMD, ATI, NVidia, etc, it's a good time for a complete architecture overhaul. I am finally at the point where the games I am buying won't run well with all the bells and whistles turned on. I don't like that.

In our group, we have some people who are very experienced and some that are complete newbs when it comes to PC hardware.

Anyway, what I was thinking was that we could all do some research, discuss, etc and try to decide what combination of hardware makes the most sense for the kinds of games we all enjoy playing. One advantage would be that we would be able to support each other easily since we might end up with similar hardware.

As a group, we could probably track down the best deals and best performance -- better than we could if we were all on our own.

Anyway, if this seems like a silly idea, tell me and I'll get started on my own research. If you like it and want to "join the team," post here and we'll start comparing notes.

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 07 Nov 2006, 10:51

I built my current system back in May 2006 (AMD 64 x2 4600+ Dual Core CPU, 2GB CORSAIR XMS PC3200 DDR RAM, Nvidia 7900 GTX 512MB, SB X-Fi, (2) 250G SATA-II HDs, 24" Dell WS LCD Monitor, New FT Case w/600W PS) Cost me about $1,800 total (Monitor was $800). I got everything through Newegg.com, and I usually shop around before buying my parts. Even with this new system, there are a few games I have (NWN2, ESIV:Oblivion, Gothic 3, etc) that bring it to it's knees unless I make some game setting changes.

Over the years, I have learned from experience that you get what you pay for, so I almost always get top of the line or high quality hardware. I figure if I am doing a full upgrade, I might as well get some decent hardware that's going to last me a few years. My previous computer (P4 3.0G 533Mhz, 1GB DDR PC-3200 RAM, SB Audigy 2, (2) 250 GB IDE/ATA drives, lasted me about 3 1/2 years before I upgraded this year. My wife now uses my old computer and it's still running great. Being the power hungry gamer that I am, I had decided that I needed to get ahead of the curve and upgrade beyond todays (This was in May 2006) standards. As of today, there are of course faster CPUs, faster RAM (DDR2), and bigger HDs (500G+). That's the nature of the beast, but I think the system I have now will continue (hopefully) to last me for the next few years of gaming goodness.

So, the places I usually visit online are:
http://www.newegg.com (Online Store)
http://www.pricegrabber.com (Online Price search)

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 07 Nov 2006, 11:25

I've had my system now for a few years. However, I'm at a dead end .. AGP only. I will be doing the full monty in a few months.

NWN2 pisses me off ... what is it that they are doing that is soooooo slooooow for my vid card? It's just not that great looking to bring my system to it's knees. Oblivion I can understand, but NWN2 doesn't look half as good. I don't have any game that looks that crappy and runs that slow.

Anyway, I want a new machine for Vista/DX10. I'm going to need a completely new system. So, I'd starting my research to decide between Intel and AMD for the CPU and NVIDIA and ATI for the graphics. I'm sure I'll get whatever Audigy card is avail at that time and I'm thinking 2GB of whatever RAM is best for the CPU I pick. I'll probably get some kind of Antec case with an Antec PSU. I'm keeping my external peripherals (24in ws monitor, mouse, kb, etc).

So, here'e my current hypothetical list:

CPU: Intel/AMD ?
Graphics: Nvidia/ATI ?
Sound: Audigy whatever
RAM: 2GB
PSU: Antec something
Case: Antec something

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 07 Nov 2006, 12:09

Gator, thanks for starting this thread. I will be doing a complete hardware upgrade in December and I really look forward to exchanging upgrade ideas with you guys.

As for me, I will be leaving AMD and will be getting an Intel Duo cpu with PCI-Express motherboard and 2 GB of RAM. I will be staying with ATI though for my video card. My hardest decision is going to be the video card. I know for sure I want to get one with 512MB of ram but I'm not sure how much money I'd be willing to spend. I really want to stay below $400 for a new video card. I guess we shall see.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 07 Nov 2006, 14:25

Panzer, I'm with you on the vid card. I've been really happy with my 9700 and X850. Unless I hear something compelling, I'm leaning toward the ATI route. Anyone know their release schedule? When is the "next great thing" coming out?

KODIAK · Post by **KODIAK** » 07 Nov 2006, 16:01

Been thinkin exactly the same thing myself, but of course I don't want to pre-buy and find I could have had a more 'compatible' system for DX10. So, my decision was exactly that, hang-off until around Feb/Mar time next year. I did see one comment in a thread, wher some guys says he's deliberating over the same deal, and the only way round he can see is to buy a budget video card for the system now, and upgrade to something more potent come Feb/Mar that will be DX10 future proof. Might be worth considering that way around.

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 07 Nov 2006, 16:38

Well, I plan on sticking with XP Pro until I HAVE to change. XP Pro has been rock solid for me. Seeing as I have 3 copies of XP Pro, I want to get my monies worth. My next upgrade will likely have Vista on it.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 07 Nov 2006, 18:34

will you be able to use DX10 on XP Pro? My problem is that i can't use DX10 with my cuurrent vid card, i can't get a new card since I have AGP only, so, it works out to a complete overhaul ... next year.

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 07 Nov 2006, 22:36

I don't think so, they are coming out with a newer version of DX9, called DX9.0L. Maybe the Win XP version of DX10?

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 08 Nov 2006, 07:59

Softball wrote:Well, I plan on sticking with XP Pro until I HAVE to change. XP Pro has been rock solid for me. Seeing as I have 3 copies of XP Pro, I want to get my monies worth. My next upgrade will likely have Vista on it.

Same here. I will not be getting Vista until at least 1 year after its release. That SHOULD give Microsoft enough time to work out the bugs and other issues with the new operating system. XP is perfectly fine for me now and I plan on keeping it for a long time.

Does anyone have any power supply recommendations for my Intel duo cpu setup? Would a 500 watt PS be enough?

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 08 Nov 2006, 14:44

I have a COOLMAX 650W PS for my AMD 64 X2 4600+ and Nvidia 7900GTX, seems to work well. It's probably overkill, but no big deal really.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817159056

Jedi Master · Post by **Jedi Master** » 08 Nov 2006, 15:24

DX 9L is DX9 for Vista. DX10 is integral to Vista's driver model, but to make it backwards compatible they're making a DX9L.
MS has said many times NO DX10 for XP.
Anyway, the real question will be if DX9L in Vista is slower than DX9 in XP.

As for upgrades, I'm also "looking". nvidia's new card, the 8800, comes out this month. Word is a couple more months for ATI's next one. CPU I haven't settled on yet, until I'm ready to buy no point.

Buying a DX10 card if you're not going to Vista isn't necessarily overkill, as DX9 will also run faster on a DX10 card because of its improvements. I was messing around with Vista Ultimate on a PC at work. It looks all fancified and stuff, but is it really a step up, or like Pretty Woman is just the same old whore in a nicer dress?

Jedi Master · Post by **Jedi Master** » 08 Nov 2006, 15:25

Gator wrote: NWN2 pisses me off ... what is it that they are doing that is soooooo slooooow for my vid card? It's just not that great looking to bring my system to it's knees. Oblivion I can understand, but NWN2 doesn't look half as good. I don't have any game that looks that crappy and runs that slow.

Are you sure it's the vid card? Did you try bottoming out the graphics to see if it speeds up? It could be your CPU just as much. Very few current games have only one bottleneck.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 08 Nov 2006, 16:02

true, but from my point of view, how can an RPG be more taxing than an RTS like Company of Heroes or an FPS like Halflife or Doom? It does speed up, but I have to go to 800x600 with low res textures and no shadows and no lighting effects and no water effects ...

are you kidding me? Halflife 2 runs smooth as silk at 1920x1200 with all effects on!

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » 09 Nov 2006, 12:30

does that mean a dx10 installed box can not run dx9 games??? i do not get the 'to make it backwards compatible' statement...

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 09 Nov 2006, 16:45

i think if you are with Vista(dx10), they also include dx9L so that you can still use dx9 s/w. Jedi just wasn't sure how dx9L will perform.

Jedi Master · Post by **Jedi Master** » 09 Nov 2006, 16:58

Right, it means the DX9 that Vista has will be equivalent but not the same as XP's. They will run side-by-side, as opposed to XP's "DX9 can run DX9 and older games" way.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » 10 Nov 2006, 16:44

so vista will not run older games???

i have seen reports of Jane's USAF running on Vista, and it even has the pull down menu's fixed.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 10 Nov 2006, 18:49

vista will run older games, it just uses a special dx9 version ...

the way i understand it is that dx10 is written from the ground up independent from all earlier dx versions. that is, no legacy code included. In order to allow vista to play dx9 (and earlier) content, they created a version of dx9 to run on vista. This is called dx9L.

Falker · Post by **Falker** » 10 Nov 2006, 19:09

I’ve heard that there going to start installing Vista on all the new computers for sale. So everyone is going to haft to deal with it sooner or later. It’ll be later for me because I just cant see spending that kind of money for something I Really don’t need one at this point , though you’d would be better off to have it integrated with a new computer. Like getting a bare bones system with a new Windows Vista included! Woot

Say , I know this is old news and I was thinking about posting it allot sooner but there’s been no mention of it here yet. So I just wanted to say that you might be able to play older games like this one below , and I’d play too. Also, It could be considered wishful thinking ( but I’m being hopeful ) that this is just the beginning of transferring more games , from the X-Box to the PC , like MechAssault.

Microsoft looked to Bungie's Halo to sell its Xbox console, and it's now planning to see if the same trick will persuade gamers to upgrade to Windows Vista. Yes, Halo 2, which shipped for Xbox over a year ago, is coming to the PC - but you'll need Microsoft's next major operating system release to run it. The game will not run on Windows XP, Bungie admitted this week. It will run "exclusively" on Vista.

Latest Info:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4698072.stm

Chit Chat:
http://www.phpbb.com/styles/forum/viewt ... 72dcb30d47

New Trailer:
http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=14778

Buy It ?
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/pc-game/halo-2/

Oh BTW , you guys need to stock up your refrigerator in here more often , I just got the last cold one. :cheers:

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