D&D 4TH EDITION

[Softball]

I prefer to DL other people's hard work (call me lazy), but I'm certainly not against making our own. There was a time where I wanted to create "The World's Largest Dungeon" using the NWN toolset, maybe it would be easier to do with the NWN2 toolset? If you haven't heard of "The World's Largest Dungeon", you can check it out here:
http://www.worldslargestdungeon.com/

I have the entire WLD set, which includes all of the maps, background, and objects included. There is a DLable PDF Map for the WLD set, and that can be DLed from here:
http://www.worldslargestdungeon.com/aeg ... ungeon.pdf

[Grifter]

remember, most of D&D games are hack and slash and puzzles anyway. at least they usually start out simple like that, and then go from there.

This is where I'm concerned that there might be some confusion about what we're looking for in a RPG experience. Real roleplaying is a story driven experience in which hack n' slash is secondary to the plot, which is largely developed through character decisions. However, Steel seems to be implying here that NWN2 can become something beyond hack n' slash, puzzle solving. An experience where characters can take on a life of their own. If not, then NWN2 is really not offering a genuine role playing experience. There is nothing wrong with such a game mind you, but I believe that SB was suggesting that we hold "long-distance" role playing sessions.

Nevertheless, it does sound like NWN 2 will most easily provide that experience for us. I'm enthusiastic about the prospect especially because it sounds like we have a group of mature folks who want to role-play rather than just level-up. I think we could make NWN 2 what we want it to be with some effort. Best of all, we have some pre-made modules to start our role-playing experience with while some of us create some original campaigns. Right now, I will not volunteer to make such campaigns because, frankly, I'm overloaded with work. I'm going back to school to become a principal. Moreover, I was a DM for ten years. I would like to play for a change.

[Hammer]

every d&d session i ever played in or hosted was combat oriented. there was always some plot, but it ends up being combat oriented. if not, why would folks want to get higher levels, more cool magic stuff, etc.? in the end, it is all about combat and whooping on the 'bad' guys...one way or another.

the role playing usually manufests itself as direct interactions with the other players...as they are more 'real'.

Grif,
do you have a better description of what you think role playing is?

[Grifter]

every d&d session i ever played in or hosted was combat oriented. there was always some plot, but it ends up being combat oriented. if not, why would folks want to get higher levels, more cool magic stuff, etc.? in the end, it is all about combat and whooping on the 'bad' guys...one way or another.

Many of the RP sessions I've ever played in also ended up being combat orientated, but then that is because most people have a misconception about what RP'ing really is. Believe me when I say that this is a debate that has been going on since D&D was first published. No one is particulary right or wrong, and in the end it's about having fun. I'll try and answer your question Steel:

Again, real roleplaying is a story driven experience in which hack n' slash is secondary to the plot, which is largely developed through character decisions. In other words, there is a reason why the characters are risking their lives fighting monsters. Sometimes the reason is rather simple, the group is really just a bunch of treasure hunters daring enough to try and claim their stake in the world. More complicated stories may indeed start from such humble premises and become far more sophisticated with the impetus of revenge, love, tragedy; that is, the players controlling the characters are really engaging in the creation of a genuine story, in which their interactions with each other as well as NPCs is paramount to driving the plot to a natural, somtimes unpredictable conclusion. The DM is not necessarily in control, but rather must improvise and react to character decisions in a somewhat logical, but sometimes unexpected fashion.

Yes, there is combat, but there tends to be a little bit less of it because character interaction with PCs and NPCs takes more time as there is an emphasis on character development. RP characters have personality. Hack n' Slash characters are typically static, one dimensional.

The emphasis on leveling and acquiring items is also lessened; in fact, characters often find or are given these items as the result of a "larger picture," and not necessarily because they were purposefully out treasure hunting.

So, character interaction is supremely important as well as somthing I like to call "character integrity;" that is, your evil elf wizard is not going to save the damsel if there isn't anything in it for him or the risk appears to be too great.

Or how about this: you're the barbarian Rogg, compelled by tribal law to kill your father who stole from the tribe less you take on his sins as your own. Your character is happens to be Chaotic Good. Now what? Do you follow tribal law, do you defy the tribal elders and risk being lynched? What do you do? Ok, let's say you go to Glamish in pursuit of your father, undecided what you shall do when you finally find him. The local law dislikes "drifters" and you find that yourself receiving a lot of unwanted attention. What do you do? Leave? You've met a few people in your quest to find your father. In particular, a dwarf named Gruck happens to also be looking for your father, but solely for the bounty. Do you agree to partner with him? Do you kill him? What do you do?

Hope that helps clarify my position to you.

[Softball]

I'm not sure that type of RP is possible with pre-made modules and the campaign that NWN2 comes with. Now on the other hand, that can surely be utilized with custom made maps and a DM running the show. As there would be "real" players behind the characters (including the DM) as opposed to NPC characters that are AI controlled and scripted.

Bottom line, someone would have to come up with a storyline (like Grifter just described), make a world map and dungeons to reflect the storyline, and then players to occupy and control the module. The more I think about, this might be pretty easy to do. All you need is the world map, a DM, and players. The DM would and should be able to occupy the world with monsters, characters, loot, etc... We'll have to test out how the DM client works and see if this would be possible.

I have RPed online, but only in MMORPG games like Shadowbane and Ultima Online with other real people, not AI. You can RP your character as to how you think that character should act in NWN2, but if the other people that are playing along with you do not join in, it's not as rewarding. RPing is not for everyone, it takes a certain person to really get into their character and "role play".

I'll start building a small dungeon map for us to test out in NWN2. I want to see what the limitations are with the NWN2 DM client, I have never used it.

[Tach Deneva]

do you have a better description of what you think role playing is?

Role playing is taking a character beyond the numbers and game mechanics. It's making a character a WHO instead of just a WHAT. It's having that character say and do what HE would say and do, based on his knowledge and his knowledge alone, in whatever circumstances happen to present themselves.

TD

[Tach Deneva]

Double post!

TD

[Hammer]

so all good...

i have put many stories like that into the stuff i created Grif...mostly on the fly.

one basic thing - to get started it is usually some poor rable looking to gain noteriety, wealth, or some other goal. i would look for the group to come up with an idea that is at least passably likeable to all and then i could run with it.

[Grifter]

To repsond what SB and Steel have most recently posted here:

1. I'm glad I asked for clarification on the sort of gameplay we want. Again, I'm not opposed to doing whatever the group considers to be fun. But if we are in the pursuit of genuine rp'ing as I have described it, then NWN2 may or may not fit the bill, only time will tell. Certainly, there are many other free software options out there that I have listed near the beginning of this thread, and folks should review them for their own edification. They provide a virtual table-top environment for real roleplaying over long distances. In my case, since all my D&D friends have moved away, I find this rather odd style of gameply appealing even though it may not be as good as face=to-face gameplay.

2. Yes, a dedicated group of dedicated role players is required to do the sort of RP'ing I'm describing here. I believe that we might, and I stress might, have that sort of crowd here.

keep me posted when you guys want to try this out as a group and I will pick up NWN2.