Question about Arma to the WOF group

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 03 Apr 2009, 16:16

Hey, I just have a quick question I've been meaning to ask. I just want to get a sense of what the attitude is in our group.

What is it exactly about the stock Armed Assault game that people here dont like?

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 03 Apr 2009, 17:34

well the AI is more intelligent with the ACE mod. For me this is the primary issue.

The sounds in the ACE mod are more realistic.

Hudson · Post by **Hudson** » 03 Apr 2009, 22:05

if you don't adjust the stock game the AI are all scout snipers; but I was under the impression you could fix that editing the text file; I hate the mod more with idiotic squad members running around screaming ridiculous taunts; that stuff is meant for people looking for a non tactical FPS; it has no place in what we're trying to play...

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 04 Apr 2009, 07:05

I agree completely. See my response to your other posting. Sorry you're so disappointed; clearly you're rather miffed about this.

Softball · Post by **Softball** » 05 Apr 2009, 10:26

The ACE mod has more weapons, better sounds, more realistic AI, and the friendly AI actually does what you want it to.

What is it that you like about the stock ArmA Panzer?

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 05 Apr 2009, 12:50

I don't think the problem is with either the stock game or the mod. Some of it's the mission design (as steel said in the other thread - they're not meant for 4-6 players). Maybe we need to screen the missions offline before we get ready to play so we don't end up with the lemons we've been playing.

The rest of the problem, the larger part (In my opinion), is the human players, not the AI.

I found that the last two times I played, I did fine against the AI ... aimed shots from cover (and I'm not even good at these games). Most times we end up with one player waay out in front, one waaay behind, all spread out ... there's no support or communications.

I also think there's way to much "you got credit for my kill" ... "how come I didn't get credit" ... "I shot him 5 times" ... "The AI is cheating." Totally intolerable. I'm likely to pop the next person I hear bitching. I wish there was a way to turn off the scoreboard. You win if you complete the mission. It doesn't matter who gets the kill or even if they're dead -- as long as they stop shooting at you.

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 05 Apr 2009, 16:04

I completely concur with everything Gator said here. I've said as much a few weeks ago:

We need to stick together and use real tactics

The mission is the priority not making kills. We win by completing the mission. If we can't agree on this point, then perhaps some of us will just meet on another night or we'll look to play elsewhere.

We should definitely screen the missions and try and play missions that fit our group size better.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » 05 Apr 2009, 20:27

Hudson,
if you set up the mod per the instuctions in the sticky you will have the ai set properly. that means the part about the profile file - that is where it is fixed.

PanzerMeyer · Post by **PanzerMeyer** » 06 Apr 2009, 06:11

Softball wrote: What is it that you like about the stock ArmA Panzer?

I actually like the mod we're using quite a bit Softball except for the exaggerated fatigue and bleeding out modelling. I was just asking the question because I see no problem with the AI in the stock game assuming that the server settings have toned down the enemy accuracy a bit. Even the stock AI will use flanking maneuvers and will use cover. My only problem with the AI has been their unrealistic accuracy but like I said, even in the stock game you can lower that.

VEGETA · Post by **VEGETA** » 06 Apr 2009, 08:13

Gator wrote:
I also think there's way to much "you got credit for my kill" ... "how come I didn't get credit" ... "I shot him 5 times" ... "The AI is cheating." Totally intolerable. I'm likely to pop the next person I hear bitching. I wish there was a way to turn off the scoreboard. You win if you complete the mission. It doesn't matter who gets the kill or even if they're dead -- as long as they stop shooting at you.

I do this to some degree, sorry but it is a game. Generally its all in good fun anyway so not sure how its intolerable. I don't say they are cheating mind you but I love it when I take a shot 1/10 a second after someone else they get kill and do a great shot I find it funny. Do I like a higher kill count to be honest yes, but it is a GAME, so hey if I don't get a good kill count o well again is a game. So hey if you take a kill shot I had lined up means u got the shot before me and its joking around. So no idea how its intolerable to have a bit of fun in a game but thats me

I also have had the shoot someone and then they warp across the map, lag also occurs and sucks bot o well. I aim shots to be hoenst and have plunged a guy 5 rounds fast and then he lives to get me but he got a lag shield, happens dead.

In the end tho the origional ghost recon was better for us why it was small groups. To be hoenst Arma is ticking me off, I have spend a lot of time i there, try my best to liek it, and ya we don't have the disapline and such but guess what we don't play one game a lot. We swap between games, we don't have set nights, set practice and such co can't expect to play one night and have it all together. In mechwarrior 4 it took a lot of work to work together and we played nightly. Ghost recon, Hondo and myself play and we don't even have to talk to each other we know what to do, because we played a lot. few words and its set but we played a LOT, constantly. We stopped playing then last year reinstalled and did a few weeks and it took a day or 2 but it was all back. But its practice and time. We keep swamping games, and after a few weeks stop playing games. Ie we stopped il2 for a month or 2 then back at it. I forget commands and maneuvers I was practicing.

So lets face it Arma sucks, never been that enjoyable even modded. Sometimes we have good missions but lot of them are unrealistic but in all honesty its not that great a game. We don't stick to 2 or 3 games, and stick to some kind of routine and practice. We don't have set commanders and set structure and such. Hell I ran in front of softball the other night, did not realize he moved, and people commented I need to work on formation no I looked and never noticed him I still screwed up but we don't have formations, we don't have specific communications set up, we don't have a command structure. So since we don't have it set up its unrealistic to think everyone can just pick up a game we an't played in months and just click like that we are the A team

Gator · Post by **Gator** » 06 Apr 2009, 16:12

That's just it veg:

I thought it was pretty clear that the intent was to play with more realism and tactics and comms when we get together for Arma on friday nights. If you want to score-whore, go play Unreal or TF2. Those are fine "games" but we're trying to play Arma as a "sim."

VEGETA · Post by **VEGETA** » 06 Apr 2009, 16:46

well I was not score horroring, personalty, do I want to take more guys out yes sure I do. Realism or not we want to do well t enjoy the game.

But I think my point is there is a difference between wanting to play realism and playing realisum

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 06 Apr 2009, 17:02

Again I have to agree with Gator here. We've been pretty clear about what we're trying to do with ArmA on Friday nights. This group began as a sim community dedicated to playing realistically, and some of us still desire to engage in that sort of gameplay. Again, I don't think we're asking for much.

I'm not going to name names and I'm not going to single Veg out; he's not the only one who indulges in this sort of behavior during sim sessions. I respect his view, however I categorically disagree with it.

While Veg does make a point about lack of strategy and communication, it is difficult to establish what is required, what we are missing, and what will work for our group when a few individuals clog the comms with unnecessary banter and complaints during missions.

Furthermore, as Veg pointed out, we're not using our downtime to assess our flaws and make adjustments. Actually, we're starting to do that now, but obviously we need to do away with some of these obvious comm issues before we can coordinate anything. Finally, Veg makes a point about practice time. I partly agree that we need more practice, however meeting to play every night is unnecessary. We don't need to "practice" keeping our mouths shut and exercising comms disicpline on a weekly basis. Everyone here is an adult and should be able to exercise some self control.

Finally, if anyone here doesn't like the game then don't play it. If you would prefer to score kills and just shoot the shit, I have no problem with it, but get together on a night dedicated to that style of gameplay, and yes play a game suited to it. Again, we're interested in simming not playing. Many of us find simming fun. When people refuse to respect the code of conduct during sim sessions, it ruins it for those who are striving for that sort of gaming experience.

I will make this plain. I plan on playing ArmA Friday night and I hope that we play it as a sim. If this sort of bull happens again Friday night, then I think we only have a few options:

1. Ask those people to kindly observe comms discpline. If they don't they will need to leave. I don't think anyone here wants to offend another member, but frankly those members who refuse to follow simming guidelines are disrespecting us in the first place. So who's at fault, really? If we choose this course, we must be willing to follow through on it.

2. If people are too squeamish about 1, then we simmers need to simply meet on another night.

3. Or, seek a simming experience outside of WOF. For myself, I'm seriously considering both options as I grow more disgruntled with the gameplay here.

Don't get me wrong. I like the people here. But my time is valuable to me and I want to spend my gaming time simming.

-Grifter.

Hudson · Post by **Hudson** » 06 Apr 2009, 17:34

I posted the full version of this in the other thread; i got lost, sorry

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 06 Apr 2009, 17:42

You really have control issues. Regarding people bitching about lost kills, see the above.

As for the AI taunts. I'll work on it on Friday and try to figure out a way to shut off. If I can't figure out, then we may need to drop the mod on those grounds.

VEGETA · Post by **VEGETA** » 06 Apr 2009, 17:55

you know something had a big post written up but to be honest deleted it. Go re read the 10 or so threads form past few years like this, we have said this all befoe

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 06 Apr 2009, 18:05

Veg, I don't need to reread the old threads. Do you know why? Because in past threads we talked about this being an issue and it wouldn't be nice if we could do something about it. The time for talk is over. I'm advocating we actually do something about the issue. I've read your position, I understand it, respect it, but I disagree with it. Clearly there are some people here who want to game and some who want to sim. I've said the rest in my post above.

Hudson · Post by **Hudson** » 06 Apr 2009, 18:32

+1 to Grifter's statement, do something now; if it sucks, it can be fixed. at least it's a start.

VEGETA · Post by **VEGETA** » 06 Apr 2009, 18:32

Grifter wrote:Veg, I don't need to reread the old threads. Do you know why? Because in past threads we talked about this being an issue and it wouldn't be nice if we could do something about it. The time for talk is over. I'm advocating we actually do something about the issue. I've read your position, I understand it, respect it, but I disagree with it. Clearly there are some people here who want to game and some who want to sim. I've said the rest in my post above.

you read my position and miss understood it. I want to sim, but we have ALL been gaming. Every few months we get a thread like this on the go saying the same thing. No one takes charge, sorry I am not in a position to take charge not looking to. But no one dose. Gut even in sim gaming (it is still gaming) the idea is to enjoy the sim. If I take out 10 guys to cover our 6 because the rest of the squad is taking out 20 + 3 tanks, no reason I can;t be proud of what I did. Helped the team. Again my oint was we KEEP TALKING same as your point Grifter, we are on the same page man

As for the idea of doing a run and gun game got those, play lots of Team Fortres 2 and LEft 4 dead with the Gamers with jobs guys and to be honest the communication there is great, go figure. Left 4 dead in co op on expert mode you don't worth together u die fast, in vs mode you plan the attacks and you can do amazing, you don't you don't win. TF2 the team that worths together there wins out, communication telling people where a spy is or whatever s a game winner and its quite well there. But I find I can only play those games with GWJ group as I join a public server and the communication ant there and it sucks. I play a acoutn a LOT there, guess what a acout dies a lot but can be VERY helpful to the team so I got good at it, soem play medic and they are required int he game of TF2. Its not a sim game by any stretch but communication is required for the team to win. So trust me even in my run and gun games I find the ones that have co op and communication lol

But I agree with you, you just seam to take my posts the wrong way to be honest. But I want to sim but we as a hole have not be. We don't do the prep work we need someone to take control and thats not happening. The same thing is said in all the previous posts, we are doing it again. Someone stand up and take charge or as all previous threads we have done its all for nothing. Thats my point.

I want to sim, like realism, hell in IL2 I want to do full engine management, learn to fly learn tactics learn what I don't know and I enjoy it. And to be hoenst we do help each other out in there a bit, and where even doing some work staying with wing man and getting it going thn we stoped playing it for a few months and lost it.

And one last thing lets face it we are not enjoying arma. Some nights we have good missions going finely but overall its just not that great a game it relay is not. That one Buff was talking about thats on the way sounds like it will be amazing and we should move to that when it finely its.

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 06 Apr 2009, 19:52

Alright. First of all, I didn't misunderstand you, and no we're not on the same page. If we were, then you would understand why some of us find unnecessary chatter on the comms and other issues so frustrating.

I have no problem with you being proud of your accomplishments and contributions within a mission, but in my opinion, your discussion of those contributions belongs in the game lobby between missions, not in the mission itself. Moreover, we have a thread for telling war stories right here on this very forum. Please feel free to share there as I'm sure it would promote good banter and even yield up tactical discussions.

Secondly, the reason why no one has taken charge is because, a long time ago, no one really needed to. The members here, whether flying or ground-pounding, simmed collaboratively and exercised very good comms discipline during missions. Having assigned leaders was rarely necessary. It was more like working within a SEALS squad.

Third, I believe that by making the assertions that I have over the past few years, and especially in the last few months, I have attempted to lobby for that sort of cohesion I mentioned in the paragraph above. I shouldn't have to take charge of the situation and demand people follow rules of conduct; I shouldn't have to emphasize to adults that comms discipline needs to be improved if we want to sim rather than game.

Nevertheless, here I am doing just that. Why? Because it has been a long time. People have come and gone and the philosophy of this sim community has not been reinforced in a long, long time. We play to have fun, true. But we find simming fun not gaming. Needless banter on the comms breaks down group cohesion and results in gaming. No, I'm not going to take charge of this situation. Instead, I expect folks to take charge of themselves, respect others, and at least exercise comms discipline so we can work the rest of the kinks out, which is in fact part of the fun! But, as I've already made plain, that won't happen if we don't all agree on comms discipline.

As an aside, I would like to point out that we've been talking about assigning squad leaders for each mission in another thread started by Hudson. I think this will indeed help with comms discipline but it will not completely squelch the issue without everyone's commitment to the idea.

Finally, I'm enjoying ArmA and I think some other people are as well. There are clearly those who are not enjoying it, however, and they should seriously consider not playing for their own sakes. We can't please everyone and we shouldn't try to.

The more and more we have this conversation, the more it is clear that we are in disagreement on the matter. Hence my suggestion that we adopt one of three policies I mentioned in the thread above. I am going to watch how the rest of this thread develops over the next few days. I'm hoping to read some the consensus of all involved with Friday night ArmA in support of what I and others have proposed here. If not, then I'll have to consider not playing.

Therefore, I encourage all to speak now or forever hold your peace on the subject. If you disagree with what I or others have said here, now is probably the time to pipe up and say something. I'll base my decision on the remaining development of this conversation.

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Question about Arma to the WOF group

Question about Arma to the WOF group