Question about Arma to the WOF group
Moderator: RLG MGMT Team
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PanzerMeyer
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Ok, let's all stop bitching and have a good time with ArmA on Friday. We'll just all agree to not play ArmA like its Quake and also agree to follow some kind of formalized battle plan as set by the mission leader.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer on 06 Apr 2009, 20:29, edited 1 time in total.
I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious - Baron Munchausen
moved to General forum as this thread has a lot about the basics of RLG (WoF and ELH)
so to address a few points:
i believe we can turn off the bleed out (not sure of the side effects of no bleed out - might just be dead) and the taunts, although i have not actually heard the taunts in this mod. Hudson are you running some other mod in conjunction with this stuff? Has anyone else heard them? Maybe I just tune them out.
i will start a poll about leadership. one issue i see about leadership - some folks might be good at ground combat leadership and not so good at air combat leadership and vice versa. do we care?
i think there are enough people and enough games that everyone can find some day and some game with others that they can enjoy. as a whole i try to garner consensus on what mods, etc we are going to use. i do not have as much time as i used to, so full blown practices and previewing missions ahead of time is probably not going to happen (unfortunately). if some folks can dedicate some time to previewing missions to ensure they are not duds it would help - but i think we can manage without. it is actually unrealistic, except for the first mission of an operation, to have a lot of planning time available anyway. the rest of the time it is generally on the fly with what you have. there are exceptions, but that is the general rule of how it goes.
to have a military night during the week seems to be fine. if you come to play on that night for the selected game, you need to adhere to the rules. if someone asks/tells you to can it, do so and please do not have hurt feelings. Veg is quite familiar with it from the ELH days, most of the rest are familiar with it from the Falcon 4/OFP days.
GR is a lighter game that allowed folks to just work together without a lot of communications. not sure why it lends itself to that, but it does. ArmA seems to be a bit more difficult about it, but I will take the blame for not taking charge when i am playing. i can/will do it, but then no hard feelings when i give direction.
keep this going, but do not let this get further than it has. everyone is expressing their viewpoints and not being an ass so far.
so to address a few points:
i believe we can turn off the bleed out (not sure of the side effects of no bleed out - might just be dead) and the taunts, although i have not actually heard the taunts in this mod. Hudson are you running some other mod in conjunction with this stuff? Has anyone else heard them? Maybe I just tune them out.
i will start a poll about leadership. one issue i see about leadership - some folks might be good at ground combat leadership and not so good at air combat leadership and vice versa. do we care?
i think there are enough people and enough games that everyone can find some day and some game with others that they can enjoy. as a whole i try to garner consensus on what mods, etc we are going to use. i do not have as much time as i used to, so full blown practices and previewing missions ahead of time is probably not going to happen (unfortunately). if some folks can dedicate some time to previewing missions to ensure they are not duds it would help - but i think we can manage without. it is actually unrealistic, except for the first mission of an operation, to have a lot of planning time available anyway. the rest of the time it is generally on the fly with what you have. there are exceptions, but that is the general rule of how it goes.
to have a military night during the week seems to be fine. if you come to play on that night for the selected game, you need to adhere to the rules. if someone asks/tells you to can it, do so and please do not have hurt feelings. Veg is quite familiar with it from the ELH days, most of the rest are familiar with it from the Falcon 4/OFP days.
GR is a lighter game that allowed folks to just work together without a lot of communications. not sure why it lends itself to that, but it does. ArmA seems to be a bit more difficult about it, but I will take the blame for not taking charge when i am playing. i can/will do it, but then no hard feelings when i give direction.
keep this going, but do not let this get further than it has. everyone is expressing their viewpoints and not being an ass so far.
Last edited by Hammer on 06 Apr 2009, 20:37, edited 1 time in total.
Helmut
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PanzerMeyer
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I think the main point with the leadership issue is not that we need to have someone who will micromanage every aspect of a plan. I'm thinking more about someone who gives a general directive on how to accomplish the objectives and then using common sense, realistic group tactics in achieving that goal. I think that's pretty reasonable and well within the realm of being practical.
I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious - Baron Munchausen
@Steel: The taunts are pretty obnoxious. Maybe you have a sound setting turned down or something. The bleeding out and the fatigue are definite issues with the mod.
@Everyone else: It's not like we're trying to institute this kind of discipline on all the games we play. Obviously we play RTSs and FPSs where banter and free-for-all are fine. I enjoy those with you all. However, we've all been frustrated when we get killed in Arma - it's unforgiving. You have to walk forever just to miss the fun. That was my first introduction to OFP almost 10 years ago -- same game! The only way that Arma is enjoyable is if it is taken seriously (relative to the other games we play). "Serious" gaming isn't for everyone, and that's ok. We play those other less-serious games as well. Heck, we're only really asking for one night a week, eh?
@Everyone else: It's not like we're trying to institute this kind of discipline on all the games we play. Obviously we play RTSs and FPSs where banter and free-for-all are fine. I enjoy those with you all. However, we've all been frustrated when we get killed in Arma - it's unforgiving. You have to walk forever just to miss the fun. That was my first introduction to OFP almost 10 years ago -- same game! The only way that Arma is enjoyable is if it is taken seriously (relative to the other games we play). "Serious" gaming isn't for everyone, and that's ok. We play those other less-serious games as well. Heck, we're only really asking for one night a week, eh?
Silence is golden - Duct Tape is silver
Come on guys, if SIMHQ can do it, so can we !!
Back in the day, Steel, Madrus, Grifter, and myself used to have some kind of "leadership" role here in WOF/RLG. For a good 1 - 1 1/2+ years I ran the 13th MEU (OFP side of things) and conducted / maintained unit training, unit ranks, mission design, and kept track of unit participation, just to name a few.
During that time, I had much more free time to do these things, and I actually enjoyed it. I think by following some kind of rank structure gave everyone a sense of meaning, unit cohesion, and motivation to reach the next level (rank). We used to keep track of flight hours, kill to death ratios, unit participation, time in the unit, etc... Having this sort of structure in place gave us something to show potential new members and it promoted professionalism and dedication within the unit.
If this sort of structure is of any interest, lets talk about it and maybe we can come up with something like we had in the past. I would be willing to help set things up, but it would have to be something that everyone would agree on and want to do.
If not, then we should work on some kind of RLG policies and ground rules when we are online together. Most of us have known each other for a long time (5+ years), and even though I have not met everyone personally, I consider all of you my friends. We have a sense of what everyone is like, what we do or do not care for, some are serious gamers, some are not. You get the idea. Let's iron out the wrinkles and come to a common ground so we can all enjoy each other's company. The banter in games doesn't bother me so much, but when it is during a firefight or during a situation where people need to pass information, people need to shut the frack up. So, if you hear someone say "Clear Channel" or "Emergency" or some other code word to get everyone to be quiet in comms, then show some respect and discipline, and clear the channel.
I will stop for now, I don't want to write a book here. Let's all be adults about this and work together, and enjoy ourselves. I do have to agree with Veg on one point, these are video games; however we can still conduct ourselves in a manner that allows us to act out or use our imaginations, and immerse our personas into whatever game(s) we play.
P.S. I now have a headache after reading over this thread. Lol.
Back in the day, Steel, Madrus, Grifter, and myself used to have some kind of "leadership" role here in WOF/RLG. For a good 1 - 1 1/2+ years I ran the 13th MEU (OFP side of things) and conducted / maintained unit training, unit ranks, mission design, and kept track of unit participation, just to name a few.
During that time, I had much more free time to do these things, and I actually enjoyed it. I think by following some kind of rank structure gave everyone a sense of meaning, unit cohesion, and motivation to reach the next level (rank). We used to keep track of flight hours, kill to death ratios, unit participation, time in the unit, etc... Having this sort of structure in place gave us something to show potential new members and it promoted professionalism and dedication within the unit.
If this sort of structure is of any interest, lets talk about it and maybe we can come up with something like we had in the past. I would be willing to help set things up, but it would have to be something that everyone would agree on and want to do.
If not, then we should work on some kind of RLG policies and ground rules when we are online together. Most of us have known each other for a long time (5+ years), and even though I have not met everyone personally, I consider all of you my friends. We have a sense of what everyone is like, what we do or do not care for, some are serious gamers, some are not. You get the idea. Let's iron out the wrinkles and come to a common ground so we can all enjoy each other's company. The banter in games doesn't bother me so much, but when it is during a firefight or during a situation where people need to pass information, people need to shut the frack up. So, if you hear someone say "Clear Channel" or "Emergency" or some other code word to get everyone to be quiet in comms, then show some respect and discipline, and clear the channel.
I will stop for now, I don't want to write a book here. Let's all be adults about this and work together, and enjoy ourselves. I do have to agree with Veg on one point, these are video games; however we can still conduct ourselves in a manner that allows us to act out or use our imaginations, and immerse our personas into whatever game(s) we play.
P.S. I now have a headache after reading over this thread. Lol.
"SILENCE, I KILL YOU!!" - Achmed the Dead Terrorist
AKA: Staark or Staark_RLG
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PanzerMeyer
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- Location: Miami, Florida
I'm in full agreement with you Gator.Gator wrote: @Everyone else: It's not like we're trying to institute this kind of discipline on all the games we play. Obviously we play RTSs and FPSs where banter and free-for-all are fine. I enjoy those with you all. However, we've all been frustrated when we get killed in Arma - it's unforgiving. You have to walk forever just to miss the fun. That was my first introduction to OFP almost 10 years ago -- same game! The only way that Arma is enjoyable is if it is taken seriously (relative to the other games we play). "Serious" gaming isn't for everyone, and that's ok. We play those other less-serious games as well. Heck, we're only really asking for one night a week, eh?
I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious - Baron Munchausen
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PanzerMeyer
- Posts: 4795
- Joined: 10 Feb 2004, 08:54
- Location: Miami, Florida
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Jedi Master
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- Location: Melbourne, FL
I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said here by at least several different people.
I will just add that as already pointed out SimHQ gets it done with little trouble. However, the big difference is time and numbers. On Military Mondays people mostly show between 7:45 and 8, and by 8 we'll have 9+ people. When you have that many, having 1 squad leader and 2-3 team leaders works great. Of course, we've had our disasters where the squad lead's plan gets a team or 2 blown away fast, but them's the breaks.
Generally, though, you don't want 4 ppl in a mission designed for 12 or more, it's just asking for frustration...especially with the brain damaged friendly AI we have always running around and not going where you say.
So I think without more people playing (something that seems unattainable frankly) we have to stick to missions designed for a dozen or fewer players and made with the mod we're using (or not) in mind.
Oh, as far as the taunts go, Steel, they're made in person, not over the radio. So if you're not standing near someone, you won't ever hear it. It's not just AI, though, player-controlled guys will do it at random as well.
I will just add that as already pointed out SimHQ gets it done with little trouble. However, the big difference is time and numbers. On Military Mondays people mostly show between 7:45 and 8, and by 8 we'll have 9+ people. When you have that many, having 1 squad leader and 2-3 team leaders works great. Of course, we've had our disasters where the squad lead's plan gets a team or 2 blown away fast, but them's the breaks.
Generally, though, you don't want 4 ppl in a mission designed for 12 or more, it's just asking for frustration...especially with the brain damaged friendly AI we have always running around and not going where you say.
So I think without more people playing (something that seems unattainable frankly) we have to stick to missions designed for a dozen or fewer players and made with the mod we're using (or not) in mind.
Oh, as far as the taunts go, Steel, they're made in person, not over the radio. So if you're not standing near someone, you won't ever hear it. It's not just AI, though, player-controlled guys will do it at random as well.
The Jedi Master
Right on Jedi.
I don't see WOF/RLG getting more than 4-6 people on at the same time. For a group our size, we'd likely only really need a team-lead.
It will come down to screening missions or (don't hold your breath) writing our own missions. Some of us could probably tweak a mission that looked too hard.
Example: Mission last week where ZSU wiped us out multiple times. Switch that ZSU to a UAZ and the mission suddenly is much more manageable.
I don't see WOF/RLG getting more than 4-6 people on at the same time. For a group our size, we'd likely only really need a team-lead.
It will come down to screening missions or (don't hold your breath) writing our own missions. Some of us could probably tweak a mission that looked too hard.
Example: Mission last week where ZSU wiped us out multiple times. Switch that ZSU to a UAZ and the mission suddenly is much more manageable.
Silence is golden - Duct Tape is silver
@Softball. I'm in agreement with everything SB said here. We should consider formally reinstituting rank for the reasons he mentioned. It was motivating. We kept flight logs, death/kill rates, etc.
@Steel has a good point about game defined leaders. For my part, I would be a much better leader in a flight sim than in a ground sim. I've had a good deal experience leading 2-4 bird flights. Leading ground assaults? Practically none. I'm more of a follower there. But it might be fun to try. I only got two us killed the last time I did it ;-p.
Anyway, ranking might be something we want to consider.
@all: So there seems to be some consensus. Friday night ArmA- we'll choose smaller mod friendly missions. We will have have defined mission/squad leaders. We will exercise comms discipline and avoid talking needlessly during missions, particularly during firefights, and clear channel when asked. Seems very reasonable to me.
@Steel has a good point about game defined leaders. For my part, I would be a much better leader in a flight sim than in a ground sim. I've had a good deal experience leading 2-4 bird flights. Leading ground assaults? Practically none. I'm more of a follower there. But it might be fun to try. I only got two us killed the last time I did it ;-p.
Anyway, ranking might be something we want to consider.
@all: So there seems to be some consensus. Friday night ArmA- we'll choose smaller mod friendly missions. We will have have defined mission/squad leaders. We will exercise comms discipline and avoid talking needlessly during missions, particularly during firefights, and clear channel when asked. Seems very reasonable to me.
