Well earlier in the week Nidia and I purchased 2 AR-15 lowers each.
I actually arranged a filed trip from work to go down to JD Machine (was Kaiser Defense) for a group of 9 people from work. We ended up buying 12 lowers in total with 3 of us buying two each. They are going to custom engrave a logo onto one of Nidia's for her, she is working on the artwork now.
Now starts th adventure of building the rifles. There is so much stuff out there it is unbelievable.
yes. for Nidia it will probably be plinking. for her a 16" fairly standard barrel will probably be good. we will see after she builds the first one what she wants to do with the second one.
for me, i will want a 16" and a 18' or 20" for longer range stuff.
Are you going to "roll your own" when it comes to ammo? Have you checked the price of .223 lately? When I started messing around with my AR's 1000 rounds of 55 grain NATo was about $250, now thats $500 plus if you can find them. DO NOT.....I REPEAT.....DO NOT USE THAT CRAPPY/CHEAP WOLF STEEL CASED AMMO.....you will regret it every time.
For plinking, see if you can find a Remington 50 round box of 40 grain varmint, these should be reasonable (last i looked). Hand loading has larger up front costs (if you are starting from zero) and you need to get comfortable with making loads.
i had a crap time with wolf - kept misfeeding; never problems actually firing if it made it into the chamber, but my vote is stay away; this was .223 with an ar-15 as well, so that's my personal experience on that. use brass. it works.
Well thats a good question. Only my M4gery upper (you know for the zombies) is in 1:7, and all I shoot in it is 62 grain M885 green tips, of which I have just north of 4000 rounds (50 mags, rest on stripper clips) in sealed ammo boxes. Hey you never know.....
Other than zombie ammo, I "roll my own" which isnt as bad as one might think. But I's easier for me because almost all of my reloading equipment is hand me downs (except my dies) from my dad. So check Ebay and creigs list and any local gunshows in the area.
Now, if the ammo situation wasnt bad enough....here is the kick in the nutz....
most manufacturers like Rock River, Stag, Bushy etc... are now at least 6 months out lead time on orders. And they fill full gun orders 1st then uppers.
Take a look at model one sales. Yes they look cheesy. Most if not all AR Uppers you find at a gun show that are not like a down payment on a house are Model 1 Sales (at least in this area). When I bought my 24" bull upper for paper punching, I did so at a local gun show and after the fact found out it was a Model 1 upper. My 24" will shoot a 5 shot group at 100 yards you can cover with a dime. So they are not ALL crap.
Anything that says AWB is a Assault Weapons Ban compliant upper, this my apply to you Republic of Kalifornia types, dunno....dont live there. Check your local laws.
So for a distance shooter, either 20" or 24" and usually are in 1:9. Depends on what ammo you want to shoot but remember this.....make sure its a Wythe chamber, meaning it can shoot both .223 and 5.56mm....they ARE different at the shoulder and pressure peaks.
If you want optics (either CQB or reaching out) I'd go with a A3 (flat top) upper, and a stainless barrel for the target gun. Better accuracy over the long run, but the chrome lined is easier to maintain (chrome lined is MIL-Spec) and 1:8 or 1:9 (most are 1:9) twists. Target guns dont need a muzzle break or flash hider so just get it target crowned.
Front sight/gas block is user choice, I perfer no sight on my gas block for the target gun but on my M4gery, I like the standard A2 front sight co-sighted with my Aimpoint M3, that way if the batt dies, I can still aim thru the sight.
Back end stock is again user choice. From my target gun I have a Map-pul PRS and on the zombie gun a standard tele stock. Make sure when making a choice on what stock to use to get the correct buffer and buffer tube/spring because they are different sized for carbine (16" barrel) and standard.
Rear sight is up to you, I have a A.R.M.S. BUIS rear sights for my top rail on my zombe gun that also co-sights with my optics. I have a Aimpoint compM3, and I'm still looking for a good deal on a ACOG TA01NSN or TA01ECOS but still cant pull the trigger on a grand. Your gonna have to find what works for you.
Last edited by Buffalo Six on 23 Sep 2009, 12:59, edited 1 time in total.
In general you can expect a 5.56 NATO weapon to fire .223
don't expect your .223 rifle to fire the 5.56 stuff though. The NATO stuff isn't heald to as high a standard... That being said in a life or death situation it would probably be worth doing it and would probably work fine
The .223 Wylde chamber was designed as a match chambering for semi-automatic rifles. It will accomodate both .223 Rem and 5.56mm NATO ammunition. It is relieved in the case body to aid in extraction and features a shorter throat for improved accuracy
Hudson is correct a .223 chambered barrel wont take 5.56mm because the shoulders are different (.223 is narrower basically) but a .223 WILL chamber and allow the bolt to go into battery in a 5.56mm chamber and the case will then fire form to the chamber/throat and thus become 5.56. For reloading, when you run the case thru your die (if your die is .223, it will compress the case back to .223 which will then again fire form in the chamber to 5.56....yadda yadda. This is why people say AR's go thru brass a lot. That plus most folks dont anneal their brass (heat treat it). But if you start with 5.56mm brass (which is annealed, crimped at the neck) you wont have near the problem, also 5.56mm brass is thicker walled and has a harder lip for the extractor. My precision target brass is sorted, grouped by weight, Lapua 5.56mm NM cases that my dad picked up a few years ago at the Super Shoot in Ohio.
.223 vs 5.56 NATO is almost the same thing as 7.62 NATO vs .308. CUP is higher from military rounds due to hotter loads so military bores are designed to take the higher pressure, have a bit more slack in the tolerance due to so many different manufacturers of ammo and so many different countries making/using it, etc. the military casings are also thicker, so reloading the civvie stuff shot in a military bore will work, but as Buff said those cases wear out faster. so yes i know the military bores can fire the civvie ammo. other way around is risky because they are not designed to handle the pressure of the military round. that said .223 is not really recommended in the 5.56 chamber due to the difference Buff stated (i think - it is the lead, the casing is shorter on .223). for .308 the cases are just thinner and may deform too much when fired in a 7.62 NATO chamber to be reused (safely).
i only intend to fire 5.56 NATO, M193 and variants (i.e. Q1313 and XM193) or M855 for now. if/when i build my target gun (building my 'zombie' gun first) i will consider match ammo. maybe we will get into reloading. already though about checking Craig's list for reloading equipment.
