Tomorrow it will be 40 years ago since John f kennedy was shot and killed in Texas.
I have seen the JFK movie with kevin costner and seen some other tv programs about it but most of them was pretty old so i wonder if they came any closer or if they found out the killer?
we had something similar happend in Sweden at 1986 and Olof palme who was the primiere minister got shoot and they never found out the killer.
JFK
Moderator: RLG MGMT Team
Well, since I am probably the only WOF member who was alive then, I guess I will respond.
Yes, they caught his killer, Lee Harvey Oswald later that day or the next day, IIRC.
Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby before he came to trial, so technically, he was never convicted of the crime.
A whole cottage industry surrounds this issue. There are people who believe that Oswald acted alone, others who believe there was a conspiracy. The movie you saw is slanted towards the conspiracy theory. The single shooter theory is just not as conducive to a movie or Hollywood's liberal agenda.
I personally believe he acted alone, but may have been encouraged/influenced by others; I do not believe there was a "vast conspiracy."
For more info go to:
http://www.madbbs.com/~tracy/lho/
Also, on a political note: JFK was a Democrat. His views on the economy, national defense, the UN, and foreign policy all are very similar to George W. Bush! Yet the current Democrat Party leadership, including his brother, Ted, proposes an agenda opposed to most of what JFK believed - while they continue to hold JFK up as a martyr and a Democrat icon.
Very humorous. :lol:
Yes, they caught his killer, Lee Harvey Oswald later that day or the next day, IIRC.
Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby before he came to trial, so technically, he was never convicted of the crime.
A whole cottage industry surrounds this issue. There are people who believe that Oswald acted alone, others who believe there was a conspiracy. The movie you saw is slanted towards the conspiracy theory. The single shooter theory is just not as conducive to a movie or Hollywood's liberal agenda.
I personally believe he acted alone, but may have been encouraged/influenced by others; I do not believe there was a "vast conspiracy."
For more info go to:
http://www.madbbs.com/~tracy/lho/
Also, on a political note: JFK was a Democrat. His views on the economy, national defense, the UN, and foreign policy all are very similar to George W. Bush! Yet the current Democrat Party leadership, including his brother, Ted, proposes an agenda opposed to most of what JFK believed - while they continue to hold JFK up as a martyr and a Democrat icon.
Very humorous. :lol:
"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away." --Barry Goldwater
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
I love the romantic ideal of a conspiracy theory. However, on a much more realistic front I feel the same is very much part of the truth - JFK was a man whose word appeared to be his bond with the American public & the backing they gave him, and his world-wide influence and subsequent power in terms of office were greater than any other president of the USA - I DO feel he was considered a threat by many in his own country (and beyond) to their intentions and ultimately was "removed" from office.
Was Oswald the true assassin of JFK? Isn't it just a little too coincidental that he was arrested for the crime, and then shot before giving evidence in his defence, or perhaps more sinister, evidence that indicted many others who lay too close to JFK? Who was Jack Ruby? What true motive did he have to shoot Oswald? And what did he have to gain by doing so in such a fashion where he would end up caught or dead? The whole plot in my eyes is TOO simple & too clean - there-in lies the conspiracy itself.
Was Oswald the true assassin of JFK? Isn't it just a little too coincidental that he was arrested for the crime, and then shot before giving evidence in his defence, or perhaps more sinister, evidence that indicted many others who lay too close to JFK? Who was Jack Ruby? What true motive did he have to shoot Oswald? And what did he have to gain by doing so in such a fashion where he would end up caught or dead? The whole plot in my eyes is TOO simple & too clean - there-in lies the conspiracy itself.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
I just thought id say that there is a program on over here This Sunday covering the whole JFK thing and they are (supposedly) using new evidence uncovered and the latest scientific ballistic techniques to uncover the truth about the whole thing.
For those of you who are asking what's ballistics got to do with it, well if you watch the old film of the actual shooting you will notice that JFK's head moves in the wrong direction when he gets shot. (ie it moves towards the window that Lee Harvey was supposed to be shooting him from) and also there is that magic bullet that autopsy reports at the time said went in to JFK's head bounced of the inside of his skull went down his neck, bounced off his colar bone through his chest and then left his body and ended up FULLY INTACT!!
in the upholstery of the car.
This is one of the main reasons why there was the theory of the three CIA gunmen shooting at JFK from different angles, since no known bullet could do that amount of damage to a human and then have no damage when it came to rest, SUPPOSEDLY!
Anyway i'll be watching the program with interest as i am more tended toward the three CIA gunmen conspiracy theory than the man that can shoot three bullets with a manual single shot rifle faster than any other man on earth theory, but still open to any and all possibilities.
And i wont even go into the WE HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY LANDED ON THE MOON THEORY!!! As i think that one is complete bollocks!!
For those of you who are asking what's ballistics got to do with it, well if you watch the old film of the actual shooting you will notice that JFK's head moves in the wrong direction when he gets shot. (ie it moves towards the window that Lee Harvey was supposed to be shooting him from) and also there is that magic bullet that autopsy reports at the time said went in to JFK's head bounced of the inside of his skull went down his neck, bounced off his colar bone through his chest and then left his body and ended up FULLY INTACT!!
in the upholstery of the car.This is one of the main reasons why there was the theory of the three CIA gunmen shooting at JFK from different angles, since no known bullet could do that amount of damage to a human and then have no damage when it came to rest, SUPPOSEDLY!
Anyway i'll be watching the program with interest as i am more tended toward the three CIA gunmen conspiracy theory than the man that can shoot three bullets with a manual single shot rifle faster than any other man on earth theory, but still open to any and all possibilities.
And i wont even go into the WE HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY LANDED ON THE MOON THEORY!!! As i think that one is complete bollocks!!
Lose Sight! Lose The Fight!8)
Barrie "Nemisis" Brownlee
[img]http://img201.exs.cx/img201/2690/nemisissignature0xl.gif[/img]
Barrie "Nemisis" Brownlee
[img]http://img201.exs.cx/img201/2690/nemisissignature0xl.gif[/img]
In one of the film sequences you can blatantly see the trail formed by a round coming in from the front left hand side front of the vehicle, strikes JFK in the head - forcing his head backwards, and causes massive damage on exit.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
I stand corrected. I thought you might have been, but wasn't sure.
Although, I will bet you weren't in high school at the time. :lol:
And, even though I have seen plenty of ballistics test, film, etc. to indicate that the single shooter theory is impossible, I just don't care to go any further. If they haven't found evidence to convict other shooters and planners behind the op in over 40 years, I just can't find the motivation to dwell on this.
Although, I will bet you weren't in high school at the time. :lol:
And, even though I have seen plenty of ballistics test, film, etc. to indicate that the single shooter theory is impossible, I just don't care to go any further. If they haven't found evidence to convict other shooters and planners behind the op in over 40 years, I just can't find the motivation to dwell on this.
"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away." --Barry Goldwater
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
Well, if you look around you, you'll find a great percentage of Americans care! Which is why you'll find America in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, & places like Iraq - because they care about what happened in history, no matter how long ago or how recently it happened.
There's no way you'll stand here to say - "WTC, yeah that was two years ago now, who cares?"
As long as every American lives who "was there" the day it happened, there will be an unrevokable desire for revenge on those responsible. I personally believe that since that day AMerica has floundered politically, and your country would be better for it had he NOT been assasinated during his time in office.
There's no way you'll stand here to say - "WTC, yeah that was two years ago now, who cares?"
As long as every American lives who "was there" the day it happened, there will be an unrevokable desire for revenge on those responsible. I personally believe that since that day AMerica has floundered politically, and your country would be better for it had he NOT been assasinated during his time in office.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
With all due respect to JFK and to you Kodiak, I look around me and a great many Americans don't remember or care about history or politics in general, or JFK in particular. And although I won't say, "WTC, who cares," some Americans already are saying that very thing, complaining about the inconvenience of the war on terrorism and the increased attempts at security.
We are in Bosnia & Kosovo because Bill Clinton put us there. Most Americans supported that action, including myself, but many Americans right now don't even know or care that we are still there. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq because G.W. Bush put us there, with the support of Congress and a majority of the American people. Many, if not most Americans supported those efforts for various reasons and to various degrees. But I would not say with any degree of certainty that they supported those efforts because they care about history, no matter how long ago or how recently it happened. I would say that a significant number supported the Afghan and Iraq invasions because of either revenge for WTC & Pentagon or to combat terrorism or both - including myself. I would add, for myself at least, another three reasons - the inability of the United Nations to enforce it's own resolutions, the inability of Saddam Hussein to abide by the terms of the cessation of hostilities at the end of the Gulf War, and the clear indication that Saddam Hussein had the means, motive, and money to support the development of WMD and support Al Quaida and other terrorist organizations.
I "was there" when JFK was murdered; I did possess a desire for revenge at the time and for a period after. If they can find others who are responsible, then those people should be caught and punished. But after hearing about this for more years than you have been alive - I just don't care as much as I once did. I have many more pressing problems to deal with, and so does our country. But the UFO fans and the Kennedy Assassination fans are certainly free to devote as much time and energy as they want to endless discussions about their hobbies.
Oh boy, so you think America has floundered since the Kennedy Assassination? I got news for you - not only has America floundered politically for over two hundred years, but EVERY country flounders politically - that is the essence of politics and democratic government. I suppose even the dictators and the commies flounder also - witness the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein. Governments are made up of people, and all the people I know flounder there way through life as circumstances change within and without of their control. Why should governments be expected to be rocks of stability and consistency?
Our country survived his assassination and it would have been better for it only because he did not deserve to die. But I seriously doubt that our country would be any different right now if JFK had finished his term.
We are in Bosnia & Kosovo because Bill Clinton put us there. Most Americans supported that action, including myself, but many Americans right now don't even know or care that we are still there. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq because G.W. Bush put us there, with the support of Congress and a majority of the American people. Many, if not most Americans supported those efforts for various reasons and to various degrees. But I would not say with any degree of certainty that they supported those efforts because they care about history, no matter how long ago or how recently it happened. I would say that a significant number supported the Afghan and Iraq invasions because of either revenge for WTC & Pentagon or to combat terrorism or both - including myself. I would add, for myself at least, another three reasons - the inability of the United Nations to enforce it's own resolutions, the inability of Saddam Hussein to abide by the terms of the cessation of hostilities at the end of the Gulf War, and the clear indication that Saddam Hussein had the means, motive, and money to support the development of WMD and support Al Quaida and other terrorist organizations.
I "was there" when JFK was murdered; I did possess a desire for revenge at the time and for a period after. If they can find others who are responsible, then those people should be caught and punished. But after hearing about this for more years than you have been alive - I just don't care as much as I once did. I have many more pressing problems to deal with, and so does our country. But the UFO fans and the Kennedy Assassination fans are certainly free to devote as much time and energy as they want to endless discussions about their hobbies.
Oh boy, so you think America has floundered since the Kennedy Assassination? I got news for you - not only has America floundered politically for over two hundred years, but EVERY country flounders politically - that is the essence of politics and democratic government. I suppose even the dictators and the commies flounder also - witness the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein. Governments are made up of people, and all the people I know flounder there way through life as circumstances change within and without of their control. Why should governments be expected to be rocks of stability and consistency?
Our country survived his assassination and it would have been better for it only because he did not deserve to die. But I seriously doubt that our country would be any different right now if JFK had finished his term.
"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away." --Barry Goldwater
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
Hades you read my mind! Here is a short summing up of the program i watched last night about the JFK shooting it was pretty solid stuff and came out with a result that the JFK shooting could only have happened ONE way.
OK here goes the program made a computer representation of what happened that day using all available video footage, this included the exact position of the presidents car , JFK's Movements and Govenor Connely's(not sure on the spelling of his name) movements during the drive through the Dealey Plaza at Dallas.
The Computer evidence clearly dispells the Magic bullet theory, most people think that the Govenor was sitting directly in front of JFK and at the same height, in actual fact the plans of the open top limo show that Connelys seat is lower and further inboard of JFK's seat, Connely clearly stated that he heard the first shot and turned to the right to try and see where the sound had come from (he had just returned from a hunting trip and clearly knew the sound of a high powered rifle when he heard it) this first bullet missed every one. It was then that the second shot was fired and went through JFK's back out through his throat it the went STRAIGHT ON and entered the Govenor just below the right shoulder blade and exited his chest hitting his wrist and thigh.
From the computer replication of connely's position the fact that he turned and the fact that both JFK and Connely reacted to the second shot at the exact same time it is clear that only one bullet hit both men and from th e computer simulation you can clearly see that the bullet travelled in a straight line no fancy flying, turning in the air, bouncing around but a straight shot that travelled throught them both.
The THIRD and LAST bullet was fired and hit JFK in the back of the head exiting from is face killing the president there and then. the entry and exit wounds from this third bullet could only have been fired from behind the president, not from the grassy knowl or any other position.
There was no fourth bullet as some will tell you, the only evidence stating that there was a fourth bullet was sound evidence from a police motorcyclist mike that was transmitting for 8 seconds during the incident, but this evidence is only viable if the motorcyclist was at a certain piont when the sounds were recorded and it was proven that the police motorcyclist was more than half a block away from the position stated, making this evidence null and void!
Lee harvey took 8.3 seconds to fire his 3 shots which is plenty of time considering his marine shooting scores he could consistently shoot a head and shoulders shaped target at 200 yards with rapid fire with scores of 49 out of 50.
Both these bullets flight paths if drawn back from the exit wounds to entry wounds go back to only one position! The sixth floor window on the book depository at Dealey Plaza.
All this evidence as i seen it was pretty rock solid. The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was seen shortly after to pull out a 38 special and shoot down a police officer with 3 bullets and then walk up to him and shoot him in the head in front of a dozen or so onlookers a few streets away implicate his guilt further.
The program went onto give a complete profile of Lee Harvey Oswald a man who a couple of months earlier had tried to Kill another senior political figure (name i cant remember just now) a figure that had staunch anti cuban background. This attempt failed and Oswald was not implicated in this attempt until his gun Ballistics matched that of the bullet fired at said figure. Oswald took the job at the book depository 5 months before Kennedys visit.
It was pure coincidence that Kennedys cavalcade was taking a route that went by this exact building. He was also seen walking into work that day with a long parcel wrapped in brown paper (Curtain rods he told his work mates). His wife was scared of him and had left him, Russia and Cuba the countries that he wanted to move to, had both refused entry to him the month before and he was a lonely, confused and dissolusioned man that happened to get a chance by pure fluke of where he worked to shoot JFK and try to make himself feel that he had accomplished something in his life.
There was a lot more to it but thats the major points and it was pretty conclusive in its facts. I now believe Lee Harvey did do it and that there was no consiracy theory.
Whatever you believe is up to you, but i think the world did lose a great man that day, he had made many great accomplishments and i'm sure would have gone on to make a lot more.<S>
OK here goes the program made a computer representation of what happened that day using all available video footage, this included the exact position of the presidents car , JFK's Movements and Govenor Connely's(not sure on the spelling of his name) movements during the drive through the Dealey Plaza at Dallas.
The Computer evidence clearly dispells the Magic bullet theory, most people think that the Govenor was sitting directly in front of JFK and at the same height, in actual fact the plans of the open top limo show that Connelys seat is lower and further inboard of JFK's seat, Connely clearly stated that he heard the first shot and turned to the right to try and see where the sound had come from (he had just returned from a hunting trip and clearly knew the sound of a high powered rifle when he heard it) this first bullet missed every one. It was then that the second shot was fired and went through JFK's back out through his throat it the went STRAIGHT ON and entered the Govenor just below the right shoulder blade and exited his chest hitting his wrist and thigh.
From the computer replication of connely's position the fact that he turned and the fact that both JFK and Connely reacted to the second shot at the exact same time it is clear that only one bullet hit both men and from th e computer simulation you can clearly see that the bullet travelled in a straight line no fancy flying, turning in the air, bouncing around but a straight shot that travelled throught them both.
The THIRD and LAST bullet was fired and hit JFK in the back of the head exiting from is face killing the president there and then. the entry and exit wounds from this third bullet could only have been fired from behind the president, not from the grassy knowl or any other position.
There was no fourth bullet as some will tell you, the only evidence stating that there was a fourth bullet was sound evidence from a police motorcyclist mike that was transmitting for 8 seconds during the incident, but this evidence is only viable if the motorcyclist was at a certain piont when the sounds were recorded and it was proven that the police motorcyclist was more than half a block away from the position stated, making this evidence null and void!
Lee harvey took 8.3 seconds to fire his 3 shots which is plenty of time considering his marine shooting scores he could consistently shoot a head and shoulders shaped target at 200 yards with rapid fire with scores of 49 out of 50.
Both these bullets flight paths if drawn back from the exit wounds to entry wounds go back to only one position! The sixth floor window on the book depository at Dealey Plaza.
All this evidence as i seen it was pretty rock solid. The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was seen shortly after to pull out a 38 special and shoot down a police officer with 3 bullets and then walk up to him and shoot him in the head in front of a dozen or so onlookers a few streets away implicate his guilt further.
The program went onto give a complete profile of Lee Harvey Oswald a man who a couple of months earlier had tried to Kill another senior political figure (name i cant remember just now) a figure that had staunch anti cuban background. This attempt failed and Oswald was not implicated in this attempt until his gun Ballistics matched that of the bullet fired at said figure. Oswald took the job at the book depository 5 months before Kennedys visit.
It was pure coincidence that Kennedys cavalcade was taking a route that went by this exact building. He was also seen walking into work that day with a long parcel wrapped in brown paper (Curtain rods he told his work mates). His wife was scared of him and had left him, Russia and Cuba the countries that he wanted to move to, had both refused entry to him the month before and he was a lonely, confused and dissolusioned man that happened to get a chance by pure fluke of where he worked to shoot JFK and try to make himself feel that he had accomplished something in his life.
There was a lot more to it but thats the major points and it was pretty conclusive in its facts. I now believe Lee Harvey did do it and that there was no consiracy theory.
Whatever you believe is up to you, but i think the world did lose a great man that day, he had made many great accomplishments and i'm sure would have gone on to make a lot more.<S>
Lose Sight! Lose The Fight!8)
Barrie "Nemisis" Brownlee
[img]http://img201.exs.cx/img201/2690/nemisissignature0xl.gif[/img]
Barrie "Nemisis" Brownlee
[img]http://img201.exs.cx/img201/2690/nemisissignature0xl.gif[/img]
Thx, Nemisis. Now I wished I would have watched that show, but you gave a good summary.
Hades, floundering means to go in one direction or say one thing, then go in another direction or say something else, then change directions again. It comes from watching a flounder, which is a fish, flip and flop around on the ground after it has been caught.
Someone who can't make up their mind is floundering while trying to make a decision.
Hades, floundering means to go in one direction or say one thing, then go in another direction or say something else, then change directions again. It comes from watching a flounder, which is a fish, flip and flop around on the ground after it has been caught.
Someone who can't make up their mind is floundering while trying to make a decision.
"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away." --Barry Goldwater
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
Each to his own I guess - but aren't wonderful things accomplished using computers, or at least everyone seems to thinks so. A computer program is only as good as it's programmer, not to mention a good programmer can make a computer do anything, and finally people are easily convinced by what they "see", and if it was "done by a computer", people are even more gullible.
These days if someone wants to convince the public of something they simply show them an image or some film footage. We of all people should also realise that given our interest in these things! Here's a small example of something simple - that's a real nice action shot there of your boy Mr McKee - Well, it's okay but it would look better if he had the puck on the end of his stick, shall we look for another one with a puck in it? - Well, we could put a puck in there for you . . . . . .
Do you honestly think anyone would question that fact afterwards? Even those who were there - such small detail but enough to blow away complete theories as to the nature of how it all went down that day, and then add a computer to the mix after changing one small detail . hey presto, someone just changed the whole picture! Do not lose your sense of scepticism over any dubious issue, or you'll just end up like all the rest of the sheep!
Hands up if you believe Michael Jackson is innocent . . . .I see there are a lot of supporters out there for Michael.
Hands up if you'd send your young children to Neverland, and leave them there w/o your supervision . . . . .oh dear, so you all have your doubts, eh? Well surely he must have some of the best security around given the amount of money he has? Surely the place must be teeming with security personnel who are there to look after the best interests of visitors to neverland - especially the children who that place is all about. And you've never heard of money corrupts everyone eventually, no? How many of those security personnel could do wityh losing their job if they say anything about what goes on inside Neverland.
These days if someone wants to convince the public of something they simply show them an image or some film footage. We of all people should also realise that given our interest in these things! Here's a small example of something simple - that's a real nice action shot there of your boy Mr McKee - Well, it's okay but it would look better if he had the puck on the end of his stick, shall we look for another one with a puck in it? - Well, we could put a puck in there for you . . . . . .
Do you honestly think anyone would question that fact afterwards? Even those who were there - such small detail but enough to blow away complete theories as to the nature of how it all went down that day, and then add a computer to the mix after changing one small detail . hey presto, someone just changed the whole picture! Do not lose your sense of scepticism over any dubious issue, or you'll just end up like all the rest of the sheep!
Hands up if you believe Michael Jackson is innocent . . . .I see there are a lot of supporters out there for Michael.
Hands up if you'd send your young children to Neverland, and leave them there w/o your supervision . . . . .oh dear, so you all have your doubts, eh? Well surely he must have some of the best security around given the amount of money he has? Surely the place must be teeming with security personnel who are there to look after the best interests of visitors to neverland - especially the children who that place is all about. And you've never heard of money corrupts everyone eventually, no? How many of those security personnel could do wityh losing their job if they say anything about what goes on inside Neverland.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
well, as i said: who cares it was 40 years ago...
but how about this. we put MJ in a car in the same environment and we test my shooting ability (prolly similar to Oswald) while he is riding in an open top car - film the whole thing and analyze it with computers to determine the 'truth'...
Yah, I am a bit off the wall, eh?
but how about this. we put MJ in a car in the same environment and we test my shooting ability (prolly similar to Oswald) while he is riding in an open top car - film the whole thing and analyze it with computers to determine the 'truth'...
Yah, I am a bit off the wall, eh?
Helmut
Yeah, maybe Steel; but MJ is further off the wall than almost anyone I know.
We are talking about Michael Jackson and not Michael Jordan aren't we?
We are talking about Michael Jackson and not Michael Jordan aren't we?
"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away." --Barry Goldwater
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]
[img]http://home.online.no/~rgt36/grafikk/fa-18-rot.gif[/img]