Radar and A-A missiles

Madrus · Post by **Madrus** » 16 Dec 2003, 12:19

Well, as much as I like this game we desperately need a patch for the radar, and a-a missiles.

1. Nemisis if it is true that they are trying to model real life radar ineffectiveness at low altitudes, then their idea of low altitudes is different than mine. On the last 10 flights in F-15c's, MIG-29's, and SU-27's I got one, count it, one bogie. I was able to lock it up at about 15 miles, then lost the lock at 12 miles, and the bogie did not reappear. This was at an altitude of about 22000 ft. Every flight I stayed at 20000 or above, once as high as 32000 ft. NO BOGIES. Is low altitude to these guys 40000 feet?

2. Again, no matter which plane I flew, the AI were always able to lock me up with IR missiles long before I could get a boresight lock on them with my AIM120's, AIM7's, or AA-27's. By the time I would get a lock with IR or Active or Semi Active missiles at 5-6 miles, their missiles were well on their way. Plus my AI wingman was as effective as me, not the enemy planes.

3. It really pisses me off when I do not have a fighting chance in any game. I feel like I am flying a P-51 against these MIG-29's and SU27's.

4. On the other hand, i haven't had any extraordinary problems with the A-G other than finding targets and finding the correct targets to pass a mission.

Nemisis · Post by **Nemisis** » 16 Dec 2003, 18:56

Yup madrus it s true that they attempted to copy low altitude effects on Radar but every one i have seen post on the Lomac Forums has complained bitterly about not being able to lock onto or even find the enemy planes, while the enemy can seemingly find you even if you haven't even taken off yet!!! Also they are well aware of the incorrect and seriously reduced range of AIM-120's in the game!

Both of these bugs are in the list to be fixed in the first official patch so hopefully we won't have to wait long before it's fixed.

Nemisis · Post by **Nemisis** » 17 Dec 2003, 05:44

Madrus 2 other possibilities came to me while i was thinking about your Super Enemy problem.

1. you might have the enemy Skill settings to high, if they are set to Excellent then you don't really stand a chance and as your AI wingman also had no success his skill settings might be lower than the enemy!

2. You are rubbish at Flying A/A:lol:

Just a couple of thoughts!

Any comments?

(Waits patiently for sarcastic backlash for second comment)

Madrus · Post by **Madrus** » 17 Dec 2003, 08:38

While I am rubbish at flying A-A, it never even gets to the point where it requires any flying skills. This is a simple matter of LOMAC designers putting state of the art missiles and radars in the AI enemy planes and putting wooden missiles from Wal Mart and radars with vacuum tubes left over from WWII in mine.

I mean, come on, when they get a lock on you with an IR missile at 10 miles and you cannot get a lock on them with your AMRAAM's until 5 or 6 miles max (and that is using boresight and not using the radar display which is still not displaying any targets, or friendlies for that matter) no matter what the altitude, there is something seriously wrong.

I think it is hilarious that a sim that is supposed to be primarily A-A is released with a pretty decent A-G component, but a lame A-A avionics and weapons setup. How could they have missed this in beta testing?

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » 17 Dec 2003, 15:14

Wooden missles fro walmart! :lol:

Madrus · Post by **Madrus** » 17 Dec 2003, 17:52

hehehe. it feels like you are chucking spears at the AI while they use IR missiles from 15 miles away. :lol:

Nemisis · Post by **Nemisis** » 17 Dec 2003, 18:01

Madrus i looks as though the Radar is a serious issue with Lomac but only on the F-15 side of things going by the Lomac forums!

Wags is saying that the radar is more highly modeled than any other out there and the doppler Notch effect has a serious part to play in this game for example he says that if a plane is in front of you going at roughly the same speed and flight path then it is more than likely that it will not show up on radar neither will a plane at lower altitudes travelling perpendicular to your flight path, but the Radar models appear to need precise positioning to locate targets and that the radar beam has a narrow bar scan in Lomac which means you have to really do a full vertical sweep of the air infront of you in small steps to find your targets!

Here is a link to the main Radar thread in the Lomac forums, I hope it helps you out and is definitely worth reading!

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_ ... d&id=zshke

Now go shoot down some planes!!

On another point if you look at the Russian Heatseeker specs for their missiles in the game they have serious long range heatseekers compared to our westrn ones! Looks like the russians have the edge with this type of technology.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » 17 Dec 2003, 20:32

The Russians DO have a serious edge with IR seeking technology...

Kamikazi · Post by **Kamikazi** » 25 Dec 2003, 19:00

I'd agree with Steel there...there's a few times in the F-15 where'd I'd love to have a HMS to splash a pesky Su-33.

I've also noticed the F-15 radar problem. I pulled behind a C-17, roughly same airspeed/flightpath, and there wasn't a darn thing on the scope. I find it pretty interesting that you have to work for the targets

Madrus · Post by **Madrus** » 25 Dec 2003, 21:03

Russian IR missiles are clearly better than US IR missiles in LOMAC - unless I am flying the Russian plane. Then the situation reverses, and now my IR missiles become crap while the US AIM 120's magically become much better at locking on and hitting me from 8, 10 miles or farther.

More highly modeled, my butt. Incorrectly modeled is more like it.

The patch better fix it or this sim will be gathering dust in my house.

daofcmacg · Post by **daofcmacg** » 25 Dec 2003, 21:39

Top billing in advertisement & promotion is just that. Look at WINdows, great marketing but a sucky product yet it still manages to be the operating system 90% of the world uses. Wow who would of thunk it.

Guys I don't even deal with the A-A, I don't have the time to deal with the problems. this game was billed as a primary inteceptor SIMM and guess what we MUDD Movers get more out of this game.

DA

Nemisis · Post by **Nemisis** » 27 Dec 2003, 06:29

OK here is what i have found out from trawling the various Lomac forums!!

As peviously stated we all know that the F-15 Does have a restricted Radar! Far to restricted and this is a known issue that is to be fixed in the first patch!

But a similiar restriction to the radar below 4000ft applies with the russian planes also and this to is to be slightly relaxed in the first patch!

But as far as the russian planes go (and i know Madrus is having a whale of a time with this since it does not matter which side he goes into he always seemingly ends up with the short stick!) the majority of people flying the Russian planes DO NOT HAVE ANY ISSUES!

I have read loads of threads and most people agree that their is no major problems when flying the Russian A-A interceptors! They do say that it takes a lot of practice getting used to operation of them, radar and so on but once they get the majority of different modes learned they are all ok with how the Russian planes Radar operates and its ability to lock on at range!

So conclusion!

I can only pass on what i have found out and from what i have found the best idea for anyone wanting to fly A-A in Lomac is stick with the Russian planes just now till the patch is released and Practice! Practice! Practice!

It's a new sim to all of us and has it's own Radar and flight models that we have to get used to which will take time.

Madrus · Post by **Madrus** » 27 Dec 2003, 10:06

I do not think we need someone to report on other forums regarding LOMAC. My browser goes to those other forums also. I can read about upcoming patches as well.

I suppose since we are just repeating what has already been posted, I guess it is my turn.

I have also been trawling the forums and I do not see the same thing. I was just reading a whole thread where they were complaining about the AI F15's radar being so powerful it locked the guy flying an SU-27 up at over 100 kms.

I prefer flying the Russian planes because I like the weapons systems better than the F-15. I am more effective with the Russian planes as well. The IR missiles work better than the American IR missiles. The radar works better than the American radar.

You consistently miss my point, and once again, I will restate it: when I fly the Russian planes, the AIM120's and the radar of the F15 AI are suddenly much more effective! They lock on at a much farther distance than when I fly the F15 against the Russian AI. And while I can get paint bogies a little more often with Russian radar (30% of the time) than with American radar (10% of the time), both are pieces of crap. I do not care how much I take Doppler effect, Doppler notch, gound clutter, low altitude ineffectiveness, terrain masking, etc. into account, and how much I adjust the range, azimuth, and altitude, these radars, especially the Americans, DO NOT MODEL REAL LIFE RADAR SYSTEMS ACCURATELY, and the behavior of the AI missiles & radar ARE MUCH BETTER than the player's missiles and radar.

I would give more weight to the opinions of other WOF pilots WHO FLY LOMAC, as they would be more valid than SOMEONE WHO SUMMARIZES WHAT HE READS ON OTHER FORUMS as if we cannot read the forums ourselves.

Nemisis · Post by **Nemisis** » 27 Dec 2003, 10:38

Sorry for trying to help! I will no longer try and assist any further with this or other issues!

Madrus · Post by **Madrus** » 27 Dec 2003, 11:05

I know you were trying to help and I know you are dying to participate, Nemisis, but I wish that you would have waited until your new video card was installed and were able to fly LOMAC so you could experience first hand the frustrations of this sim before you commented on how well it operates. We all want to enjoy this sim, and right now there are too many flaws in the A-A mode that need addressing. And I believe my eyes before I believe most of the posts that I see on the forums. And you need to see with your own eyes before you should take my word.

And, I hope I am not belaboring the point, I just got done flying LOMAC with me and my wingman in F-15's. we were flying at around 8000 feet and were approaching SU-27's at about 15 miles. My wingman was able to paint the bandits, lock up and fire an AIM120 at 15 miles. It did not hit, of course, but the point is, my radar did not paint the bandit! Once again, I was unable to paint any bandits flying at around 8000 feet, heading toward me, with my radar set at 40, 20, or 10 miles, and my vertical scan at 5000-11000 feet. I varied the height, width, and azimuth of my scan everyway I could. And I changed my altitude from 5000 to 12000. Of course, i could not do any of this very long, because by the time I reached 8 miles, they had blown me out of the sky as I was messing with my radar rather than defending myself.

I think that this illustrates that there is a different set of parameters for the AI than the human pilots. And all I am asking is that the AI and the human pilots have the same restrictions and effectiveness.

Nemisis · Post by **Nemisis** » 27 Dec 2003, 11:36

Nice Edit Madrus.

Thought i'd do the same!

Merry christmas one and all!!

Anyone for tennis??

Madrus · Post by **Madrus** » 27 Dec 2003, 13:23

I just realized what my New Year's resolution will be (well, at least one of them):

I resolve to post less, stop responding to silly, illogical, and unsupported posts, stop wasting my time flying A-A in Lock Off, Medieval Air Combat with the superhuman AI and the highly modeled but worthless radar, and have more fun flying Jane's F/A-18, USAF, and Falcon 4.

Maybe I'll even go back to Fighters Anthology or Jane's F-15. All the advances in computers and they come up with Strike Fighters Project 1 and LOMAC?

Hooah!

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » 27 Dec 2003, 13:42

regardless...the game sucks right now and IS gathering dust at my house... i am very glad i got it used. very typical of Ubi to do this - they did it with IL2 and Forgotten Battles...and Raven Shield, etc., etc. they make great games, but turn them out too soon. maybe LOMAC will become a great game in time...that remains to be seen. right now I prefer Falcon SP3.

Hopefully Falcon Gold will come out...and will be decent.

that is also really enough of the back and forth. it has gone far enough to start going downhill. anyone can post whatever they want, but be prepared for the repercussions. your fellow members in THIS unit are all highly intelligent AND opinionated and not afraid to cut loose. no one should ever take things too awful personally and realize how we behave (yes, we do behave, right!?!) in this unit. agree to disagree, ignore/accept things you don't like, help each other, be comrades, and have fun.

edit: sorry folks - don't mean to preach... we are all adults and i know you folks can police yourselves...

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Radar and A-A missiles

Radar and A-A missiles